I'm kind of tired of specs with "medium" cooldown abilities

Like, for example, Subtlety Rogue. It already has a “big” DPS cooldown, which is Shadow Blades with a 2 minute CD. It’s an impactful and fun button to push, which adds value to the spec and provides a nice window to feel more powerful.

But that’s not the only significant DPS cooldown in the Subtlety kit. Next, there’s the whole “Symbols of Death” situation. It has a few potent talents built into it, making it pretty much mandatory if you want to make full use of the talent tree. It’s on a 30 second cooldown, and its benefits last 10 seconds. Meaning that you basically have to press it every 30 seconds or else you’re leaving a lot of extra damage on the table.

But it’s bothersome to manage the cooldown. 30 seconds is short enough to feel relatively frequent, but just long enough that it feels like an effort to keep track of its availability. And its impact just isn’t that satisfying, despite being a substantial boost to your overall effectiveness when coupled with the talents which enhance its effects.

Shadow Dance is another one that’s similar. It’s a large part of the spec’s damage output, but its cooldown is situated in a place that makes it another hassle to manage.

Secret Technique, too, with its 1-minute default cooldown, shortened by other synergies of course.

I don’t really like playing cooldown whack-a-mole, which basically makes all of the rogue specs less appealing to me. Subtlety on paper sounds awesome. Shadow damage, emphasis on backstab, bleeds, and finishing moves…

But all the short-cooldown juggling shenanigans just end up making it borderline unplayable. Not because I’m incapable of downloading an addon or whatever, but because it just doesn’t feel fun to play. Too many buttons with a weird cadence and not enough moment-to-moment fun. Because of how many short cooldown power boosts it has, the parts of the rotation when you’re not using any special cooldown buffs just make me feel like I’m swinging a wet noodle around.

Other specs have this problem, too, though to a lesser extent. Do people enjoy clicking Blade Flurry every 30 seconds for 10 seconds of benefit? Or Roll the Bones every 45 seconds for 30 seconds of a buff? Between the Eyes for a 20% crit buff? Ghostly Strike? Blade Rush? Sepsis? Echoing Reprimand? Thistle Tea? Cold Blood? I don’t like it. Way too much juggling.

Sustaining Slice and Dice is one thing, and that is kinda satisfying, but all that other stuff just feels like busy work. Why not make Roll the Bones a passive effect which cycles you through one of its benefits every 30 seconds? Why not make Blade Flurry a toggle with a small penalty to energy regen, like it used to be?

Then there’s Assassination. Definitely the least egregious of the three, but it still has the same Rogue talents as the others, throwing Thistle Tea, Cold Blood, Shadow Dance, and Echoing Reprimand in the way of every path except the one leading to Deeper Stratagem. It has its own land mines, such as Serrated Bone Spike and Kingsbane, but at least those are in positions that are easy to build around, so they don’t feel mandatory.

I guess my point is that having a bunch of buttons on short cooldowns that feel mandatory in the rotation is just adding busy work. These effects could easily be changed into passive buffs or procs that don’t require a hotkey or a bunch of mental juggling.

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I agree with you. I HATE mini cooldowns with a passion. The worst part is they’re all better than fillers and there aren’t good passive alternatives so it’s worse to go without them.

Every stupid mini cooldown should get the power word life to benevolence treatment. Given a passive alternative node of comparable power.

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This posts seems to be basically just about rogue.

And i want to love rogue. But i cant. It just feels awful to play and is super squishy.

Slice and dice isn’t satisfying and should be removed.

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I wish there was a sub spec with passives you could add to like ret pally.

Depends, do they do something on their own / change how I would interact with other buttons in my kit? Or do they exist to simply be pressed because they’re there instead of something without a cooldown?

I’d say most of them are the first kind, they offer players more control over how and when they want to deal damage within reason, as well as anchors / opportunities for blizzard to build rotational interactions.

Any that are the second kind I don’t think serve to do all that much and can mostly be cleaned up, Mindgames was the big one I’m glad to see go in TWW.

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Yeah, that’s kind of the focus of my interest right now. I’ve been leveling a Rogue in Cata Classic, and I’ve started to notice how…in that version of the game, I want to play all three specs because they’re each fun in their own way, so I keep switching between them.

But in retail, on the rogue I leveled during Dragonflight, it’s kind of the opposite problem. Each of the specs hits me with some annoyance or another, like Symbols of Death or Roll the Bones, and it makes me want to switch to another one until that one annoys me enough to switch again.

I want to have trouble choosing a spec because they’re all fun, not because they’re all kinda frustrating and lame in slightly different ways.

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Oh my goodness I agree with you very much! I am so tired of maintaining a buff to make something else a little bit stronger to use once or have an extra amount of bleed or dot time extended if I hit another button first.

It is completely unsatisfying and it does add something to the dps we do but it’s more… tedious than fun.

Juggling mini cds was a great way to put it.

I can’t imagine looking at rogue and the first spell you want to remove not being slice and dice.

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Other things in life that have a CD:

When dad uses bathroom, 3 min CD before going in there.
Mom sees your report card in the mail, 2 hour CD.
Tuesday maintenance- 3 and a half hour CD.

I’m kind of classic-brained in that way. It’s been around since the very beginning. There are ways to handle it which have been done before in other expansions, but for some reason have been removed as if they forgot about it. Such as, after you use it once, your other finishing moves will refresh its full duration.

I wouldn’t really be super sad to see SnD removed or otherwise changed around, but that’s probably my least significant complaint in the whole ordeal lol

That’s how it works for assa I believe and it’s still terrible. Just throwing 5 combo points in the bin on pull. Rogues have been asking to get rid of it since it was added back.

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Fair point. It does kind of feel vestigial when I think about it more. I remember they first brough it back as a substitute for Roll the Bones spamming, for those of us who couldn’t stand the RNG, but it eventually became a class-wide ability again at some point after that.

I was, at the time, happy to see SnD return specifically because of nostalgia and the fact it meant I didn’t have to deal with Rolling the Bones anymore.

But now we have SnD and Roll the Bones, so somehow things got worse before they got better lol

Rtb has had a rocky history but I quite like where it’s got to, it’s still got some variance but much less than it did, it’s mostly about reacting to how each combination affects your gameplay instead of rerolling constantly to try and get a better set of buffs like in legion.

I’m looking forward to seeing how fatebound ends up playing with it.

Symbols of death though would be good to have a passive alternative to, the gameplay it adds of letting you buff specific finishers to line up burst is cool but I understand its not for everyone. I really like having control over how and when I deal damage without having to outright hold back.

A question to ask is if the class would feel better if they removed slice and dice and I think it would. They would have to numbers tune it not being there though maybe with giving rogues a passive attack speed buff among other things

Rita, you’re one of my favorite posters, but I really gotta disagree here. In the case of SnD, you’re right, but I play frost mage…and all my interim cooldowns feel so good and I’d be devastated if they were all taken away. Comet Storm 30 seconds, Ray of Frost 1 minute, Shifting Power 1 minute, Frozen Orb 1 minute. All these buttons feel so good and lining them up properly flows so well.

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I like my mini burst.

I would suggest just macroing it to something else. I don’t play rogue, so IDK what to tell you, but it sounds like a macro could work

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Again I am not saying delete them.

I would suggest the same thing, and for a lot of my specs that I alt I do macro in quite a lot of things.

Am I leaving a couple percentage DPS on the table, sure. Do I run the risk of it automatically being used on my last hit of a trash pack, sure. Does it feel better and less stressful YEAH