Can you give me an argument why having the option to obtain M+ level loot in dungeons without the timer is a problem, other than “go do delves.”
Maybe I enjoy the group dynamic of dungeons. Maybe I don’t see everything in this game as an annoyance to overcome and cheese through as fast as possible. If that’s your thing, more power to you.
Because the timer existing as a minimum bar for how much players are able to mitigate risk, as well as requirement for numerical performance, adds to the difficulty of the content. The difficulty the ilvl of rewards are tuned around.
For the same reason raid bosses have enrages, push comes to shove you do not win simply by not dying. There’s a dps check you have to beat.
The timer has never been the problem. The problem is, always, that people complain that they have to do challenging content to get max level items. Would a dungeon where every boss and trash pull enrages, has more health, and hits harder be any different?
I don’t mind a version that removes the timer if it can be appropriately balanced in another way. And if they pull that off, they can still keep the timer version around for the esports / MDI folks.
My concern is that the only other lever we’ve seen them use is a death counter, and that’s going to put even more pressure on tanks and healers than the timer does. Generally speaking, the tank dying in a key isn’t one death, it’s five. The healer dying can be the same if they get unlucky towards the beginning of a pull or boss.
That’s so cool!
Thanks for explaining. I just played with my friends, we probably got everything wrong, but I still love MTG, and I have SO many cards.
The timer is the reason mplus is mplus, if you want hard dungeons without a timer why have you never done a single hard mode dungeon when they were relevant content? Those dont have timers
Okay, you said it. Now duck as everyone starts throwing food at you. Not that I disagree but M+ people are super serious about it .
I am mostly playing heroic dungeons instead of m+ and I really appreciate change of difficulty in df season 4. Though it’s way better now every boss is still down within 10-20 sec fight. I really want blizzard to make current m0 a queable content and probably add same levels of difficulty of +1 to +5 as traditional dungeons, i.e. without timer, no key for the level, item drop from bosses instead of chest. I don’t think m+ is bad and it 100% shouldn’t be removed although I’d like to see a different type of dungeon content that is less stressful
They rolled 2-11 into M0 difficulty. Which, admittedly, is still easier than that because there are no failure conditions and mob count is worthless. So, there you go.
I would love to see such a game mode added to the game for those who want it, so long as the rewards are placed at appropriate levels given the difficulty reduction with the lack of a timer. The problem I have with these posts is that they pretty universally call for removing the current M+ mode to achieve that. It’s rarely if ever a call to add a new mode that sits beside M+, it’s always an attempt to show why M+ is singlehandedly killing the game and the only path forward is its removal in favor of a timerless version.
It’s also rarely if ever a request for difficulty parity, it pretty much always boils down to “Make reaching X ilvl easier by reducing the difficulty of the content or increasing the reward for the content I can do.”
What % of the player base do you think plays M+ or mythic raid?
It’s low. 2-3% for mythic raid and maybe 10% for mythic+. So yeah raw numbers 10% seems like a lot but 90% is a lot more they should build the game for the 90% not the 3% or the 10%.
Then, time to delete endgame content and only leveling. Because if anything gets close to 100% utilization, it’s that.
Better yet, make leveling take 10x as long. just so people who like classic might go to retail.
If this sounds stupid, it’s because it is.
Most correct post of all Blizzard forum history.
I hate it that’s why I don’t do it.
I mean the m+ timer.
It would be nice to not be glued to your seat for an entire run at a time.
Or having a dc break your run.
Or having the time to talk about a fight, or even socialize a little bit when pushing some difficult content.
My question is how much of that number is people who enjoy M+ for what it is vs. people who do it because it’s the fastest, least involved path to loot. If M+ reverted to something like MoP challenge mode which only rewarded cosmetics or raiding changed to make that the path of least resistance to gear, what would participation look like? That is the number that should be looked at IMO.
The timer on its own isn’t what turns me off. It’s the context. I can deal with difficult timed solo content because it’s just like, whatever, I’ll dust myself off and try again no biggie. In M+ though you’re also trying to not drag down your four other party members, to meet whatever arbitrary expectations they have, and to not brick the key, which makes for a really unpleasant sort of pressure. Most of us deal with enough of that in real life, why would I want it in my games too?
That’s how it used to be in TBC before unkillable Tankidans existed, let alone M+
As long as the loot was adequately nerfed to compensate for how much easier it would be.
That’s fair, I’m not asking for a hand out. I like challenge.
I’m just looking for a different kind of challenge.