I feel like it is less required for a tank compared to a DPS. ILVL is the key for tanking (stam/defenses). You can get a max mythic piece from the Mythic raid bosses, especially at the early stages of raiding. What trinket type the tank has will have very little to survivability and personally parsing 95% as a tank consistently will always be accepted.
So if I am getting my weekly mythic level peice of gear (from the raid option) and I am capping crest from other sources (delves and raid targets)âŚthen I would not feel required to do Mythic + and be content.
I definitely get that argument, you care a lot less about what you have vs just having something. M+ would still up your odds of getting an upgrade every week, especially when you still need tier. Again no expectations of farming it though.
Wrong mount then⌠it was the one for doing every 5man heroic achievement. Iâm not a mount collector I just remember getting it and felt more of an achievement than raiding at the time because heroics were actually semi difficult for once.
This around the time that ghostcrawler made his infamous âget goodâ post when people were crying about how hard the 5mans in cata were. So, it doesnât matter if they are timed or not, people will still complain when stuff is actually challenging. Timer is just a scapegoat⌠so in the legendary words of ghostcrawler get good lol
I think the game needs a pve alternative to m+ that doesnât involve a timer that isnât weekly time gated like raid, that letâs you go all the way to myth track gear.
To be clear when you say no timer do you mean no ticking thing on the screen? Or do you mean no enrage timers, no DPS checks, nothing that could make a playerâs ability to execute their rotation a roadblock to completion of any sort?
M+ is easily the best thing theyâve added to this game in the last 15 years.
Itâs not particularly close either. 19% is a craaaaazy number.
If 19% of the playerbase quit the game because M+ got removed Blizzard would be in WoD or mid-Shadowlands âall hands on deck, this game is genuinely going to die overnight if we donât do something immediatelyâ crisis management mode within 24 hours.
Your title is extremely subjective and divisive. Some of your ideas in the post are fine, but I wound up here, regrettably, due to your extremely click-baitie title, so thatâs what Iâm going to respond to. Mythic plus single handedly saved wow. Five man progression is fantastic. It also respects the players time. When it first released in legion it was geared very well toward average players. The issues we are facing now come from a number of factors including the fact that top tier gear is so readily accessible, they adjusted the difficulty threshold to critical much sooner (like just after key 10). The result is an extreme demand on precision and coordination. They can still be timed and not so backbreaking in those ways. And they can still scale in difficulty.
I think for most, they mean the ticking thing. I hadnât actually realized that enrage timers and the m+ timer serve a similar function until you mentioned it.
To me, the m+ timer has a different psychological impact than an enrage timer. Most boss fights arenât that long. So you have tension for a couple minutes then, win or lose, the tension is released. If you won, you continue on. If you lost, you shake it off and try again. With the m+ timer, the tension never lets up. It just builds. Some people like that feeling, others donât.
The timer isnât the primary thing that keeps me from trying m+ again but I can see how it could be a turnoff for some people.
Iâll never understand this kind of narcissistic thinking. OPâs problems are entirely caused by him wanting top tier gear without the equivalent effort, and he wants it just because.
If you want to do chill content do lower level keys and easier raids. It literally doesnât impact you one iota that other people are out there with better gear because they do harder content.
Back in cata, a kid with ADD who only really gets to play on weekends and a 65 year old grandfather who only plays on weekends could clear the raid on heroic every week in a single night on the same team.
Absolutely false. I main M+ but my formative years of wow were my start in Cata. I raided all Cata raids as a resto druid on the 2nd tier (noob) raid of my old guild. That content was just as hard then as content seems now, that was not grandpa content at f all. Heroic difficulty was mythic difficulty. My raid struggled to beat Normal in Cata, whereas honestly heroic raid now is basically free. Iâm probably a bit better player now than in Cata⌠So if you think Cata was ez mode and the game is hard now, logically I have to assume you got carried back then.
If you donât want to learn anything about how to play content at a honestly basic level, then donât. Play other parts of the game. If you want BIS gear then Try.
Havenât logged in for the last 2-3 weeks even to deal with the new mount in the anniversary stuff because I see Bnet on the taskbar, I go to open it and my brain saysâŚ
âWhy bother, itâs still M+ or die and no one I know wants to play that garbageâ.
Again.
Another expansion totally overshadowed by them hyperfixating on one, toxic as hell game loop where they can just recycle content for 2 years instead of actually developing a game we all enjoy.
M+ tho is basically still the only option left and if you didnât join an RPG to play a Lobby based, ADHD speedrun simulator for Twitch views that the new dev team envisions then you are just⌠out of luck, and this game is not an RPG anymore and you simply arenât welcome.
We need a new game director, our current one has clearly lost the plot.
Iâd suggest that people who donât like the modern competitive retail experience go play classic, but those players are far sweatier than the M+ community. Almost like the problem is with WoWâs players and not the game itselfâŚ
Why not just have raids drop enough crests that players can choose to get them from either raid or M+? Why do we need M+ to lose out on crests or for players who care for both to farm both?
I wasnât talking about the structure of the gameplay, just the rewards. If mythic raiding is how primarily raid players want to experience their gameplay, thatâs perfectly fine by me since I am not participating at that level.
But if all that mattered was the gameplay experience, then M+ wouldnât matter at all to the raid experience. The reason it does matter is because of the rewards players can take from M+ into raiding. In a race to the finish, which is fundamentally how competitive raiding works in WoW, the speed of gear acquisition is the most important aspect of gearing. And M+ is by far the faster gearing avenue, hence why competitive raiders feel compelled to farm it extensively early in a season (and once theyâve started extending raid).
M+ has been the most stable grouped endgame PVE experience I think the game has ever seen. There were not major fundamental changes to the mode until TWW, and even then only if you are running +12s or higher. Every season before TWW and for the players that arenât running +12s this season, the core gameplay loop of M+ has not changed since its release.
I would disagree with this when it comes to TWW M+ for players who push +12s and higher. An âaffixâ that doesnât change week to week is just a fancy name for a core mechanic. Removing all variability week over week is a massive change to the gameplay of the mode; I would say those levels of keys this season are fundamentally different.
But I definitely agree with every change prior to TWW S1, and for the vast majority of players who arenât reaching those levels, nothing else reaches anywhere near this level.
In a vacuum, it isnât.
But the environment doesnât exist in a vacuum. In order to achieve what you want, you need everyone else competing at the level of play you want to be at to play the way you want to play. If a significant portion of players at that level are willing to farm M+ to improve their characters between raids, and you are not, youâre going to fall behind. So the only way for you to remain competitive without that farming is for the game to prevent them from farming that way. You donât overtly say it, but what youâre asking for is to control how other players experience the game how they want, all so you can get the game you do want.
And thatâs to say nothing of all the players who are even just one step below the level you play at for which who now have to increase their amount of farm because they want to play both, and to do so requires multiple sets of gear.
Because the people you are competing against at the level you want to play are doing so. I can empathize with your position, but placing the blame squarely on M+ is misguided. Further, even if it wasnât M+, it would just be something else that youâd have to do on your off time to improve.
At the end of the day, Blizzard is a business, and having people only log in for 6 hours a week to raid and thatâs it isnât in their best financial interest. They benefit from having structures that encourage players of all levels to log in day in, day out. And creating a scenario like WoD where you never had to leave your garrison except to raid is just not good for business.
Could there be a compromise between that and what we have today? Sure. But a complete iron curtain between raid and M+ would mean raiders, even at the top, could simply raid log. And thatâs not in Blizzardâs best interest.
Dungeons didnât give good loot before they let them scale with M+.
Loot scales with difficulty of challenge. Thatâs how it should be.
I find it annoying when players want loot handed to them instead of earning it.
Not my experience. We have an active guild; some of us M+ and some donât. We still hang out together, help each other⌠Those of us who M+ are usually doing it in friendly groups in discord. Itâs our favorite way to enjoy the game. Iâm sorry if itâs not yours, but there are a lot of us who really enjoy the tight teamwork and comradery weâve built through M+.
I love elitism. There was enough for albeit silly reasons back in the day but wasnât anywhere as toxic as with mythic +. Mythic + could get removed and take all the âskill issueâ elitists with it. Bye bye.
Exactly. With no timers at all, thereâs no role for DPS, no reason to bring anything but tanks and maybe a healer. There has to be a need for speed to justify DPS. The only thing theyâre better at than tanks and healers is doing damage fast.
You must be playing different game from me? Or maybe projecting?
I am no elite (just ask my guild mates who laugh at all my goofs), but I love M+.
And Iâm here to tell you, the toxicity people talk about, even in pugs, is vastly overblown. I tank a lot of pugs (at least 16x 10s every week to fill vaults for two toons), and the vast majority are chill even when things donât go right. Yeah, every now and then thereâs someone over-stressing, but thatâs just human nature. People are people wherever you go, and itâs usually 20% of the people causing 80% of the problems (Pareto Principal). People saying all M+ fans are toxic elitists though⌠Thatâs blatantly untrue and unfair. Most of us who love M+ are just regular folks having chill fun together. No need to insult us because we enjoy something you donât.