not gonna look up your logs, i believe you. it sucks.
for what it’s worth, i’d be fine with them separating m+ and raid gear and for basically the same reason – i have basically no interest in raiding anymore.
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Except your statement is not factual. Majority of people DID raid but not at a Mythic level, just like the majority of people play Mythic + but not at high keys. Which just concretes my statement. You enjoy Mythic +_, thats great but there are more and more people posting and leaving the game because of the horrible state of Mythic + currently. WoW knows it because they have internal data of losing subs and are reacting with surveys. Mythic + high keys and being required weekly for high end raiding is ruining the atmosphere and gameplay for many.
I want Mythic + players to get gear thats elite, heck I would be fine with it being equal to Mythic raid gear…just as long as Mythic + gear can’t be used in raids and Mythic raid gear can’t be used in Mythic +. Then people who love both can do both…people who love one can do one…but being forced to do both when you don’t enjoy it is not allowing people to play “what they want”.
You’re not forced to do both though, that’s the best part. Especially at the level you play at. A discussion regarding raid loot amounts is definitely warranted, especially crests, but this is a non-issue here. All that making people carry a unique gear set for each piece of content will do is drive people to branch out less.
Lol no, not even close. This has never been the case, maybe only at the end of Wrath when PUG raiding was really high.
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You don’t have the play the content my friends and I enjoy. Luckily, we don’t have to play the content you enjoy, either.
This is just not true, especially for tanks and healers. You show me a cutting edge Mythic raid team that creates an environment where tanks and healers aren’t constantly wanted/needed for Mythic + content and where rolling into the raids as these key classes isn’t expected to be maxxed out crest weekly (which you can’t do without Mythic + or already full clearing the raid) and trying for BiS trinkets/gear.
Doing high keys gives you a key power advantage in raids. Sure raids can be cleared with those that just raid log but the power difference in a raid team that does Mythic + constantly and one that doesn’t would be night and day. There is no unicorn world where the pressure to do weekly high keys for vault and crest isn’t party of a Mythic raids life…which is why wow is no longer the game for me…until they make a change.
And what percentage of players are leaving the game because of the horrible state of raiding?
- The reason M+ keys are viewed as required is because of the abhorrent gearing systems in raid. That’s a raid problem, it seems odd the only solution that anyone talks about is ruining M+ for everyone rather than fixing these flaws with raid.
- If it wasn’t M+, it would be something else. If you want to compete with the top percentiles of players, you’re going to need to do similar things as them in order to compete. It’s seems highly unlikely Blizzard will ever force raid or die for top raiders again; so all you’d be doing is ruining a mode some portion of the player base enjoy only to shift the problem to something else you don’t want to be doing.
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Even if this was true, I honestly just don’t care anymore. I’m sorry to be rude about it, but we suffered through the entirety of this game’s existence where raiding is the golden child and everything fun or enjoyable was changed and made worse because high end raiders complained about it. I’ll never forget when they combined 10/25 man lockouts and killed PUG raiding because high end raiders complained about having to do both every week.
I just don’t care. Now you get to experience what we all had to put up with for 20+ years of this game. I’m going to tell you exactly what raiders told us that entire time: deal with it. This game finally no longer exclusively caters to you and other high end raiders and that’s a good thing.
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Raids should drop more crests, I stated as much. That said, high performance in both content paths makes you perform better overall. That’s a non-issue.
This was 10 years ago my man.
Ok, well you’re only doing heroic now.
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I would be onboard with Crest not dropping for Mythic +. Id be fine with crest that only worked on Mythic + that was only obtainable from Mythic + and vice versa for raids.
The only thing I disagree on is that Mythic raiding state needs to be change as much. Sure the addon requirement and stuff for raids is out of control but Mythic raiding hasn’t changed much over the years. I dont like the crest system or the new crafting system to be honest but raiding has been constant…just harder.
Mythic + on the other hand changes drastically every season because they been unable to find the right balance or gameplay that seems to make the masses happy. One season people praise it…the next they hate it. That is because the two are linked and because of it, it has a lot of eyes focused on it. They need to be separated or barely effect each other.
M+ hasn’t fundamentally changed a single time since Legion.
Not to say no serious updates have happened to it, but at its core the gameplay is identical to how it was.
The reason for this is because its accessible enough that the masses can theoretically do it, and once the masses can theoretically do something they don’t want the game to tell them they aren’t good enough to do it.
Almost every complaint about mythic+ comes down to make it easier.
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Yeah…it was 8 years ago…but Legion released Mythic +. Prior to that I played every expansion and all the raids on hardmodes. Mythic + changed wow forever for me…and I don’t like it. Same with many others. For others it was great. I got the short straw but I do think its possible for people to have the best of both worlds.
I cleared heroic and started to push into Mythic…but I quit. I came into TWW with the drive to give WoW another push…because I can still perform at a high leve but when season 1 dropped…Mythic + sucked the life and fun out of the game for me. Its a hurdle I can’t jump because its like torture…but I “want” to play…I want to see the saga…I want to experience housing…but I don’t want to play those fun perks…if I can’t enjoy Mythic raiding. Sucks to be me.
This is entirely self-inflicted. Sorry, but my empathy has run out.
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What is it specifically about your experience with mythic+ that turns you off it so much? Not looking for an angle or to disagree with you, genuinely curious.
A lot of people in my guild don’t really do mythic+ enthusiastically but we do what we can together to make an environment where people can enjoy getting their 4~ vault keys done a week whilst having a laugh and not taking things seriously.
I love tanking and I love raiding. Mythic dungeons use to be “relax” time to hang out with friends and help gear up new raiders in prep for gearing them to a starter point for raids, etc. But Mythic + has turned into mini raids where everyone wants to push high keys (because Mythic raiders have to do +10 for the weekly vault and currency) and as a tank it turns into having to research all the routes, ping, assign targets, coordinate CC’s, kite if needed, etc etc. Majority of the conversation is calling out mechanics and the next pull instead of actually “hanging out”.
Instead of raiding 2-3 days a week…its 4+ days a week with mini raids and power progression. Also pugging high keys is just not enjoyable…so have to also “recruit” 4 other guildies who can play on off nights together to get things done…which is a time consuming job in itself. Thats been my experience at atleast.
Honestly, and I mean no disrespect to those who do struggle / aren’t playing at the level I’m talking about, but given your track record the type of guild you’d be looking to be raiding in that is absolutely the vibe you’d get doing 10s for vault. They’re hard for maybe the first week, then you have the new tier set / big ilvl bump from 2 weeks of heroic + starting mythic and they fall over. You pull w/e you want, failing mechanics isnt dangerous enough to matter, and you just kinda naturally play well enough you can keep the vibes going and chat without losing steam or it causing any problems.
We as a guild say 4 dungeons for vault as req, and that’s it. If people wanna push hard first few days of a patch for ilvl they can but it’s in no way expected. 4 dungeons with guildies is about 2 hours, and that’s not needing to “recruit” a push group. It’s grab any 3 dps + 1 healer (Offspecs included) and go.
And we’re not exactly badly ranked either. Guilds that cater to your needs / level and reframe the content in an enjoyable way do exist. It is genuinely a shame that that’s your experience with mythic+, especially given your past achievements because it absolutely doesn’t have to be.
Before M+ existed, people would just raid log because there was nothing else to do to get upgrades outside of raiding. Now people actually have something to do in this game to get gear upgrades in between raid nights.
If you don’t want to play this game 4 days a week, and just want to raid 2-3 days a week, then don’t.
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I dont care about empathy but self-inflicted I disagree with. The game went 12 years without Mythic +. Blizzard fundamentally changed WoW. Wow had 10million subs during WoD and lost 3 million subs in 3 months at the end of 2015 and dropped to 5.5million subs during Legion. The second largest sub lost occurred between 2016 and 2017…which was the release of Legion which many praise as one of the best expansions, but this doesn’t match up to sub count reality. I think that many “vocal” people praised it because they liked Mythic + but more people who didn’t like Mythic + just left. Sub count for retail has been down year after year since 2015 …the only thing that really saved WoW was the intro to classic servers.
But that is starting to fade also.
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