I'm just going to say it. Mythic+ is and at its core, fundamentally a mistake, and anti WoW

Community General Discussion
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How many did PVP (even when PVP was good?)

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Without M+, your average raid team is going to be doing Queen Ansurek in 99% heroic raid gear. The raids aren’t tuned for that, they’re tuned much higher.

People who don’t raid CE don’t understand how Mythic raiding works, and I wish they would stop chiming in with their ignorance about it, in threads.

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And once extending starts, raid loot drops to zero.

(What if that filled vault or allowed people to back track later?) I dislike extending means you can’t kill earlier bosses. So you can’t do prog on Tues and reclear on a Thursday or something.

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Which is the problem, yes.

See my “insurance vault” suggestion.

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I do miss the old school heroic dungeons. Basically entry level 5 man raids. I just wish these were an option in retail, rather than M+ or raiding. It seems trivial to implement some mechanic that makes the M+ timer optional while providing an additional reward. I think a possible mechanic could be that when activated and succeeding the M+ timer, the loot rewards have an additional upgrade level. So champ would have 9 upgrade levels and heroic would have 7, for example.

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Or just dont play mythic plus…or git gud after all it is just pushing buttons on a keyboard really not hard

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Mythic zero, heroic dungeons, normal dungeons are all options in retail wow and none have a timer? Who told you they werent options. Hell you can even do follow dungeons not deal with all those tOxIc PlAyErS

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Yeah, it’s not about the “challenging content”. There isn’t a way that WoW can be difficult anymore.

There are no button combos or 13-frame timings to master. You simply don’t stand in fire, press a series of buttons locked behind a (relatively slow) global cool down, and you’re fine.

It’s systemic, and you’re so concerned about the cheese you can’t even see that the trap is already sprung on you.

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I think this is already the case, but raiders have this ego where they cant handle x amount of fails per boss, so they circumvent jt with m+ and then complain that they have to do m+ instead of just taking a little longer to get CE

Getting CE 3 weeks before the season ends doesnt detract from being a CE raider. But the idea that it they didnt get it as fast as someone else bothers them, so they HAVE to m+ to BE A TRUE CE RAIDER

Id bet a CE guild could get CE strictly raiding if they actually tried

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You mean like, RWF? With less ilvl even?

I have a similar Mythic Raid progression to you, so know what im talking about. After all the nerfs and allt he tunning done on raid you can beat Mythic Ansurek on 626 for ex.

Cause when full hero pieces, gonna depend more on your hands with class and doing mechanics. Full Myth gear is just for allow the raid to skip some lil stuff that otherwise would kill you

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A HOF guild can probably pull off a CE World Last, but nothing like normal?

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That explains your fit about it, it’s okay that you cap out at keystone explorer.

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Do you know the average raid ilvl of the world first Queen kill?

I’ll wait while you go look it up. (But not for long.)

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Without even trying? Yeah that is okay.

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I don’t know how fair of an argument this is because people will seek to obtain the highest ilvl possible.

So it’s not lack of ability to do it with lower, but rather higher ilvl was possible.

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Yeah, check it, maximum is 626. Minimum 623

Check it here raider io/guilds/us/illidan/Liquid

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The discussion was about raid tuning, and the raids are tuned for a certain ilvl. Even the RWF guilds - with perfect raid comps - were doing it with ilvls much higher than the average person on this forum thinks.

And most guilds don’t have the luxury of having perfect raid comps. They don’t have tanks with max ilvls on multiple characters to switch out from fight to fight.

The RWF guilds are literally paying hundreds of other players to gear them up. But that’s not something they show on TV, so most people don’t realize that.

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And sometimes they get banned for RMT heh.

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There’s a made-for-TV fantasy notion of the RWF, on this forum. People are clueless, yep.

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HoF wraps up at what? 8 weeks, ish? You dont think runner ups could do it with another 16 weeks?