i have lots of alts and more casual friends i love to play with and dungeon/raid with, and i have an entire pug discord i run “puggin whitemane”
One of my guild mates is working on an addon that will auto invite the first people in the LFG tool that fit the role/s we are looking for. Gonna be pog.
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this i do absolutely agree with. more people will level healers and tanks with rdf than currently which will def help the community
This is besides the point. Classic was never designed to cater to the majority, it was made for the exact opposite reason. Classic was made to get back the WoW players that didn’t want to play retail.
Blizzard doesn’t want retail players in classic because retail is where the shop and the real money is. That’s why they go to lengths to distinguish it from retail with this LFD (and why Ion himself said as much during WOTLK’s announcement telling people retail is there for that) because it’s really the basis for classic existing - to be different to get those people paying subs.
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so we circle back to it being best for the majority as even you cant get “the endgame you want to” without it being at RDF speed. If RDF gets you to that endgame in X, and no-RDF gets you there in X+Y, why is suddenly X+Y unacceptable once RDF exists? You are fine with taking X+Y time now, why does that change once the tool is in?
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if y more than doubles x its unacceptable, sure and if X x Y and as Y aproaches 1 it becomes much more acceptable yes.
I dont understand what part of this eludes you?
Ion is horrible in general, but that comment specifically was moronic in that “just play retail” is entirely tone-deaf to why people play Classic but not Retail. Classic versions of the game are significantly better because retail is bloated with garbage, alt-unfriendly systems where sweaty players make it generally a negative experience to play. RDF isn’t a slippery slope or “what’s wrong with retail”
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Because you’re going to spend X+Y time to get Z+Y advantage while I spend X+Y time and get Z advantage.
347 replies good bait.
if y more than doubles x its unacceptable
The only way this would happen would be if the option for manual grouping is not just unatractive but downright hated by the player base.
Plenty of people will still add 1 or more players from their friend list, guild, discord premade, previous raid pug, etc. then queue to fill up. You can still form and manage meaningful in-server networks of people to play with and enjoy that social aspect you want. However, people are no longer trapped in their server and forced to only do it that way. So while sure, manual grouping wont be as efficient as just queue and forget, I dont think the difference would be that big.
Anecdotal as it might be, I’d say it was less than 20% of the time that I solo queued into RDF. Most of the time I’d find one or more friends online, but not enough for a full 5 man, and we’d queue for a few runs letting the tool provide fillers. Some of those were faceless randoms who might as well have been NPCs, but many would chat about current events, do ingame jokes or just comment on the run.
I honestly feel adding the functionality to queue with friends over battlenet tags would solve a lot of the issues people have with it.
Because you’re going to spend X+Y time to get Z+Y advantage while I spend X+Y time and get Z advantage.
I honestly do not understand the difference between pressing W until your character moves into the swirly portal or clicking to queue. I get that its there for you, that you’d rather travel in the actual game world and for people to be out and about doing the same. I just dont share your view of that tiny aspect being enough of a deal to consider yourself ‘forced’ into using the tool.
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Something to do on a slow Friday tbh
You can say he’s tone deaf but as I’ve already pointed out it’s not at all different from those people insisting we just play around the tool. There’s a game for people that want these tools and it’s retail. Those people will play retail irrespective of how they feel about classic and they aren’t the target audience for classic updates. That’s also why things like polls aren’t entirely useful to them either because they don’t want retail players to weigh in on what classic is going to have - it’s actually contrary to the entire point of classic.
so QOL is in fact a slippery slope, and it is definitely a part of “what i find wrong with and dislike about retail” and like thats valid. and its okay for the developers to want to preserve that for me, and us who feel the same way.
Retail is trash because every expansion overhauls some grindy, RNG-heavy progression system to be replaced by another grindy, RNG-heavy progression system, and dungeon/raid difficulty bloat leads to meaningless, repetitive gameplay. QOL things aren’t half the issue; the way the game plays at the very root is. (not to mention the complete lack of identity each class has in its MOBA-like playstyle)
Classic+ (which is already a thing given the numerous changes Blizzard’s already made) is worlds better than retail.
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so i agree with this but not with
and what we both have here are opinions.
this i do in fact agree with
Would you be willing to concede though that ‘you and those who feel the same way’ might be a minority of people with current active subs and who play on Classic servers?
Yeah, a majority of current Classic players might not be blizzard’s target audience, I understand that. its not the argument being made. Im just saying that the change as it stand does not correspond with the views of most active players, be that they are the intended players blizzard wants or not.
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If you want to start a long winded conversation with a classic player, just ask them why they don’t like retail…
Everyone has their own personal reasons they’re not playing retail right now. Classic was never “retail but without the bad stuff” because to Blizzard the bad stuff isn’t even bad stuff. It’s all in there because they have engagement metrics that support its existence.
Classic is its own thing for its own market judged by its own metrics.
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Remember the entire “journey not the destination”? That might be your take on the issues with retail but that wasn’t at all their vision for classic nor was it the overwhelming majority of peoples takes either when they sat down and fundamentally created classic, even in its original inception being heavily focused on social mechanics.
The whole point that I’m trying to get across is that “if you want RDF, play classic” is just a dumb statement by Ion that doesn’t get the point that one QOL tool isn’t the difference between Classic and Retail. It’s entirely possible to love everything about Classic and hate retail but still want a “retail feature” because it’s a benefit.
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i have no evidence impircally, or convincingly (in my opinion) either for or against that so i believe if we are in fact the minority i believe its probably very close. SO theres no reason to “concede any such point”.
So i dont quite understand the point of this. being in the majority doesnt change anything, and thinking that blizzard doesnt make calculated decisions and risks is a little silly. lets assume that you are a majority. What does that assumption do for your arguement?