I love support specs too, its why I like classic so much, shamana nd paladin are just fun to support others with, when they nerfed AUG support and made it more personal dps I was sad, its annoying people complained about aug. They should keep aug and just make more support specs. The whole reason people hate aug is because it is the ONLY support spec, making it mandatory. I would also say getting rid of the toxic timer of mythic+ would also help aug
Personal preference it stays that way, see my earlier post in this thread as to why. Summary: I don’t want to have to play a support spec to do something other than damage or heal.
Addendum to that statement is that a fair few asks for preservation and devastation were instead given to aug to build out its kit. And I personally don’t want other classes to have the same happen - losing utility in other specs just to back port ‘support’ into the class.
LOL You suggest that add more support specs and that they brick mythic plus for one awful spec? Aug was/is a mistake. Make Aug great by making it a tank spec.
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Here me out here. What if they make aug a melee support spec, but give 40 yard range to dev and pres?
Evokers can equip swords but not use them? Just make aug a melee buff spec and make the other two specs true range specs w/ 40 yards.
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Should have known to stop reading here; this one’s on me.
stop changing your name >:(
Well this one was a realm change now that it won’t matter what server we’re on, so maybe that gives us a little extra time (but probably not).
No it was no mistake!
Finally a spec where its not all about dps/hps e.g. it plays relaxed and i like it.
I don t want it to be another high apm +stress+ tank spec ^^
Dear Blizzard create more relaxed-playing Supporters and add a new Support-Role. Thank you <3
And slow down on all APMs @classes. This is an MMO no action h&s.
I feel for you OP, I really do. I love the idea of support specs as well. In any group based game, they should have a place.
Unfortunately, I don’t think they work in modern - day WoW. The game is far too established, built upon two decades of “trinity” based - gameplay. There are so many cogs and wheels that must be taken into account every time they create something, and a pseudo - fourth role exponentially multiplies the variables that need to be accounted for to an unreasonable place.
So I do think Aug should end up as a tank. A "supportive’ tank naturally, but a tank. Blizzard has gotten far better at balancing tank survivability post - legion. Its not perfect, but its extremely rare these days for one of the tanks to not be capable of surviving all of the content to a reasonable level. Take Uldir for example. I played a VDH and they were almost objectively the squishiest tank, but while progressing mythic at a reasonable rate (meaning I wasn’t perpetually under geared) I never felt like my spec couldn’t reach a reasonable level of survivability.
Because of that, tanks are often balanced around their utility these days, so creating one that maybe does lower DPS than the others but has extra utility is far more feasible than a full blown support spec.
I suppose it could work as a healer, but we already have preservation not to mention, healer design has been all - over - the - place for some time now. For awhile they were similar to tanks (all reasonable at healing, with utility often being the deciding factor) but I feel they’ve gotten away from that a bit in DF.
I would love for “support” to be a role though, don’t get me wrong. But I think the key word there is “role”. Blizzard would need to make a conscious effort to fundamentally change the game at its core. Would need to shift a lot of the buffs to support specs, make some of them ubiquitous (for example, would need every support spec to be able to apply major buffs that all comps rely on) and change how group composition is thought of. Dungeons would be either Tank + Healer + Support + 2 x DPS or they could make them 6 player content and just add the support spot. Would assume a raid of 20 people would be designed around having 2 tanks, 2 supports, 3- 5 healers and of course the rest as DPS.
Would mean you keep Augmentation as a support and probably have to rework or change a 3 - 5 other specs. I feel like thematically Disc Priest, Enhance Sham, Ret Pali, Arcane Mage and Demo Lock could fit that rework, but you’re essentially killing already established specs, so probably not the best idea.
The only one of those I would fully rework into a new support role is Disc. Its always felt like a support spec, its a balancing nightmare, and you’ve still got Holy for healing. I would also make Enhancement a support spec (its in the freaking name) BUT that would come with the caveat that current Enhance still exists and just ends up with a new name. So you’ve got an Enhancement Shaman support and the melee DPS could be idk, “Avatar Shaman”.
Paladin obviously has to have one, Warrior makes sense because of shouts. Monks can pull it off, Mages have time. DH I want to give one because they only have two specs, but support and DH (despite how much powerful utility they actually offer) just doesn’t align thematically. And we’ll give the last spec to Warlocks because of how much history they have being supportive with curses, health stones, summons etc.
So ya. Introducing the new support role; Augmentation Evoker, Discipline Priest, Enhancement Shaman, Salvation Paladin, Lord Commander Warrior and Manipulation Warlock. Mage gets a Healer spec Chrono and of course Shaman gets repurposed Enhancement.
It won’t happen, but it sure would be neat!
Eh, this could work pretty easily, it would just have to be a debuff playstyle on targets as opposed to a buff on allies.
The Alpha is out, Evoker Hero Talents are out, and Augmentation still seems to be doing what it’s doing. If Blizz considered Aug a failure I think we’d have seen some evidence regarding some overhauls to the spec at this point, but that’s evidently not the case. I think its role is probably staying the way it is going forward.
This will literally never happen. If people still take aug in super high end content because of its supportive/survivability toolkit (despite its abysmal damage), there will literally be ZERO other tanks taken at the high end if they have even remotely the same supportive toolkit as a tank.
Stop saying make Aug a tank. It’s clearly not going to happen. A tank evoker would only work as a completely new spec that has no more supportive capabilities than other tanks.
I wouldn’t necessarily say this. Alpha is usually more about the core experience of the new expansion and doesn’t always include huge changes to specs.
They may be more interested in overall stability/bugs and experience, with a lot more balancing coming in the beta passes.
I think it’s probably evidence that nothing ridiculous is happening (like a tank spec), but there will be a ton of class and balance changes.
You could very well be right, but I don’t think we’re past the point of being able to see decent-sized changes.
I wouldn’t necessarily agree, context of the gaming space is important to keep in mind when and where supports add value. Even then, what you define as a support is an important distinction.
As a vague description, ‘support’ can be used almost interchangeably with healers as a term. Case in point, HotS or League. Primarily healers or shield protectors, with maybe small passive attack speed buffs. The value of a vague term like ‘support’ in those contexts is in that the available actions to any character is 4 buttons + 1 ultimate. The vague terminology allows a vast range of design decisions without restricting you to only healing.
However as WoW is an MMO, you can have a great multitude of buttons to push and a variety of passives to manipulate those abilities. Though roles are defined ‘narrowly’, the variety of gameplay between any two specs is so vast that many forms of gameplay can be enabled and allowed. To the extent, I would argue, we already have supportive gameplay. Dps can heal and buff (thinking of priests vampire ability and DH damage boost dot), healers do damage when they don’t need to heal, tanks manage the pack outside of pure damage output. The only change Aug’s gameplay brings in is a managed buff within the party. But thats one ability, that if stripped away (ignoring numbers) leaves it as a dps same as any other you listed with the only difference being maybe 1-2 more utility abilities.
If thats the definition of a support in WoW, is it worth it changing the entire structure of a game and replacing the ‘holy trinity’ with the ‘holy quadinity’ making grouping even more time-expensive? All so some specs (whether healer or dps) can have one extra ability? Aug, as a design, is a solution in search of a problem. That, just by existing, forces the game to change around it to justify its existence.
And again, I’m saying this as someone who enjoys supportive gameplay over raw damage output.
If spatial paradox didn’t exist, you’d have a point here.
It trivializes healer struggles in a way that nothing else does at critical moments, and being Aug-specific completely and substantially changes the conversation.
Like I said, without the managed buff it only has 1-2 more utility abilities then other dps. And Spatial Paradox could just as easily be a class ability as a spec specific one. Thematically fits in Mage toolkit as well, functionally fits in most any other toolkit if you change it from bronze theming.
It being Aug specific changes absolutely nothing. Monk gets ring of peace, that trivializes certain m+ pulls. Paladin has Divine Shield. DK has grip. One extra utility that ‘trivializes’ one aspect of the thousand things that happen in dungeons and raids a difference does not make.
It changes literally everything lol.
When you don’t have a choice but to play Aug in progression because of it (unless you want to stubbornly make a fight more difficult for no reason), that’s a massive problem.
Right but it’s not, and that’s the problem.
To a lesser extent Defy Fate being in the class tree as well would eliminate a lot of issues.
Again, like I said before
I do think we’re in agreement, in that Aug is poorly designed and negatively affects the game direction.
I think the ratios of buff to personal damage are the main issue affecting balancing the spec to work, it’s not as far off as it looks.
Besides spells that should be available to all evoker specs, they only really need to shift the damage to be heavier on the personal side so that the spec isn’t as the whim of the entire game’s balance.
The support superfans don’t like to hear it, but a shift towards personal damage is an inevitability if Aug is going to exist as it does now, kit-wise.
The buff is one of the largest issues, no matter how much personal vs group damage is going on.
The buff gives an amount of main stat to everything that receives the buff. Conceptually, should be fine. In practice, a large negative. Melee classes vs caster classes benefit from main stat gains differently.
Measured out, melee classes gain value at an logarithmic rate. That is to say, at a slow rate vs the amount of stat given. Their overall effectiveness is determined by a couple factors (weapon swing speed/main stat/weapon type plays in a little I think). So gaining extra main stat helps but isn’t too impactful.
Caster classes, however, gain value at an exponential scale. That is to say, at a very fast rate vs amount given. Gaining any amount of main stat is explosive in value. Thats why meta comps with it trend towards casters only as they gain more value vs melee counterparts.
I don’t want to worry about meta comps too much, but it is something that’ll affect the future of the game. Things like MDI (not a fan but I know some are) will effectively show the same comp over and over, cause that comp will be the most benefited by main stat gains. To be clear, knowing and playing a non-meta spec will always provide the most benefit vs not knowing and playing a meta spec. But at the top, knowing any given spec isn’t a concern.
For sake of balance, for everybody, we’ve already seen what’ll become of Aug through whats happened to similar classes in other games. Hence why I brought up FF14 much earlier in the thread. To not have to break classes just cause buffing existed, the buffs got tuned down to such a degree that they never exceeded 5% for anything. 1% damage/2%crit/3%direct hit for bard, 30 seconds duration 2min cooldown for each, with a 5% buff in the rotation after you did all three songs (also 30 seconds). For dancer, 5% damage but to only one single person in the party. Astrologian, 1% buffs when using a card unless it was the class specific one, then you got 2%.
And that’s not main stat buffs, thats just general damage buffs. If Aug’s gonna stick around, it cannot give main stat anymore so that melee and casters equally benefit. More then a shift towards personal damage, that change must occur.
Maybe a break from the game would be good for you? I’m not saying you should quit, but this is a game. Things will change over time, though I doubt what you are worried about is going to happen concerning Aug becoming a tank, but if you’re so invested in a game that it’s actively causing you anxiety or other emotional issues, then consider taking a break. I do doubt they’ll be adding any support specs in the near future because of the reception of Augs, but I don’t think they’ll move Aug from the support role. With that said, your health should trump any game.