True, but we are going to do it in Season of Mastery, thanks.
The sad thing is that it’s not intentional. These people actually have some kind of mental/emotional disorder which prevents them from enjoying their raid without WBs as long as someone else, in some other raid that has nothing to do with them, IS using WBs.
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the problem with your ‘argument’ is you are acting like WoW is a single player game where what other people do doesn’t effect you in any way. it’s laughable and deserves no serious response other than “ok, go play on classic era / TBC classic if you don’t like it, thanks”.
So what would be the problem with WBs being allowed in raid instances on SoM?
You all would be 100% free to get together and form guilds that don’t use them.
If someone else does use them, in some other guild that has nothing to do with you, how does that make your raiding experience less fun?
Let’s compare two hypothetical game designs for SoM:
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WBs are not allowed in raids. Nobody may use them.
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WBs are allowed in raids. Each guild can choose whether or not to use them.
Design #1 is fun for people who want to raid without WBs. It is not fun for people who want to raid with WBs.
Design #2 is fun for people who want to raid with WBs. It should also be fun for people who want to raid without WBs, because they can form a guild where WBs are not allowed.
What someone else does in some other raid will have no impact. If you disagree, explain why. I am looking forward to your explanation. 
What another raid does quite literally does not affect (grammar lesson for you: “effect” is a noun) you in any way.
By definition, it takes place inside another raid lockout that is completely unreachable to your own character.
And at the end of the week, both raids killed all of the bosses and got exactly the same chances at loot.
So how exactly does it reduce your enjoyment in raid A, for raid B to be using WBs?
Looking forward to a detailed explanation of this “spooky action at a distance” phenomenon.
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Because that encourages a toxic meta in which everyone needs to get world buffs to compete. This meta will infect almost every guild, as it did in vanilla classic. Finding a guild that truly doesn’t care about the world buff meta will be difficult, and I don’t want to deal with that. Thanks for understanding.
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I highly doubt simply removing world buffs will eliminate the elitism related to class stacking and optimal consumable usage.
The simple solution seems to be having SoM servers w/o WBs and servers w/ WBs + chronoboon. Blizzard’s one unpaid intern managing SoM might have a mental breakdown though.
nobody has a problem with class stacking and optimal consumable usage. we have a problem with world buffs. try to keep up.
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Ooooh, this will be good. Now we are getting somewhere. Let’s interrogate these answers a bit further and find out where this leads.
What are you competing at? Last I checked it’s “Player vs. Environment” not “Player vs. Player”. So what specifically is the competition? What comparison are you making?
Does this entire mindset come from an external website called warcraft logs dot com?
Are you comparing individual parses? Clear time? Overall execution? Realm 1st kill? Please state which one of these things matters to you and then let’s discuss it in further detail.
So what you’re saying is that WBs are hugely unpopular, and yet out of thousands of anti-WB players, none of you possess the self-control to commit to raiding without them?
Or, are you saying that you personally have that self-control, but nobody else does, and not enough to form a 40 player raid roster? Wouldn’t all of the other anti-WB players say the same thing – “I would join a non-WB guild, but nobody else will” – and if so, doesn’t that mean somebody is lying?
OK, sounds like you personally would join an no-WB guild, but you don’t think they would exist.
Yet look around you. There is a large and vocal group of players saying the exact same things that you’re saying. So what is stopping the group of you from getting together and committing to a no-WB guild? Surely if so many people hate WBs as this forum claims, you shouldn’t have any problems with that. You should be able to fill an entire server with anti-WB guilds.
Are you calling them liars? Are you implying that they have no self control and wouldn’t be able to resist WBs if they were implemented? Would they say the same thing about you? Do you also lack the self control to resist the WB meta?
I’ve understood all along. I already know the answers to all the questions, I’m asking them for rhetorical purposes (it’s called The Socratic Method) to lead you into a direct confrontation with your own pitiful psychological weak-mindedness.
You’re literally so mentally weak that you can’t resist some completely imaginary pressure to get some buffs which make numbers in a video game bigger, and it’s truly one of the most pitiful things I’ve ever seen.
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there you go acting like WoW is a single player game again
if you deny the existence of gaming metas that coerce people into doing things they don’t really want to do, then we can’t have an actual conversation. you’re just denying reality, like calling the sky green.
blizzard is thankfully not denying reality and making sure this particular meta is nipped in the bud for SoM, because the majority of players DID NOT LIKE IT. period.
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According to you, there is a strong majority preference for no WBs.
Also according to you, you won’t be able to find a no WB guild, if WBs are allowed in raids. (This is where your supposed “coercion” comes into play)
Therefore one of the following must be true: 1. There actually isn’t a majority preference for no WBs, OR 2. There is a majority preference for no WBs, BUT all or almost all of the anti-WB players are psychologically weak and will get them anyway if they are allowed.
So which is it, #1 or #2?
Is the majority preference for no WBs a complete myth? OR are you all a bunch of psychologically weak crybabies who can’t resist getting WBs even though you prefer to play without them?
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it’s #2. we are so so weak. so let us have SoM ok? thanks 
Don’t you think it would be nice to play the same game for the nth time, only slightly different and more challenging?
If not, they still make 6-piece-puzzles
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They play the game… they are just an incredibly vocal minority.
Most will make it to level 30, and quit because “well i dont have the time” or be mad when BWL comes out after 3 months because “well im not 60 yet”. Its an endless loop and blizzard has decided to cater to the bad players instead of those who actually love the game.
people who actually love the game and people who love world buff meta do not overlap.
world buff meta is an exploit, breaking the game we love. you’re not supposed to clear BWL in 18 minutes.
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Thanks for this reply - I like the fact that you can disagree without getting salty. This forum needs more of that.
I agree with a lot of this, but not all.
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I never said parsing was the only thing to this game, it’s just 1 thing that I happen to enjoy. It’s the only metric that even comes close to measuring the effort and time I’ve put into my character. Obviously, yes, it’s mega-flawed. I’m not even sure you can measure skill in this game… But still, it’s the best I have. I still find it fun.
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Usually, but not always. RNG does happen. It’s not about pulling threat… sometimes you just take AoE damage you can’t avoid and healers are busy healing the tank. Sometimes a trash mob parries your tank 3 times in a row on a pull and then turns around and 1-shots me because I got 2 massive crits. It happens. It’s not anyone’s fault, it’s just RNG.
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Agree 100%.
Yes, I agree that some people get tunnel vision around parses and ignore mechanics even at the expense of raid efficiency. I like to think I’m not one of those people. I hope… 
But I’d argue that WBs actually partially drive this selfishness, so taking them away will actually help. Think of the rogue who vanishes instead of helping the raid avoid a wipe because of WBs… or the warrior… “Oh, you want me to throw on a shield and tank this stray trash mob 1-shotting our healers? What, AND RISK LOSING MY BUFFS?!”
While I refuse to act this selfishly, many others don’t care. And I routinely get punished and lose my WBs when I do the right thing. That kinda sucks. But now, when I die, all I’ve lost is a few consumes!
I never said they’re the only thing that matter to me, that’s a bit unfair.
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I mean the challenge has always been there. World first on progression, #1 on speed. Vanilla implemented extremely early MMO mechanics, it’s relatively an extremely simple game by today’s standards. Honestly what it sounds like with people wanting longer fights + more boss mechanics is for vanilla to be more like TBC or even retail. Seems like people don’t actually like vanilla for what it is.
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LOL imagine thinking words matter at all? There is an incredibly vocal minority that dictates how the game is?
Look at TBC… you removed world buffs and made it harder, and its dying incredibly fast. WoW streams are dead. Speed running is over and boring. Wow congrats asmongold who barely plays wow said buffs should be gone. The dude picked a toxic pvp server and his guild was insanely casual, never even got a song flower. The only info i would take from him is a good example that you absolutely dont need to buff, since he never did, even though buffs were in the game. WHy dont have you buffless folks just do that? lol
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Yes, I know. The point of all of this has been to get you to admit it.
I’d honestly prefer that Blizzard not take choices away from players who can handle them, for the sake of other players who are too pathetic to cope.
I think the word “slightly” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
I recall wiping a couple times in Naxx due to dumb stuff, and still having easy one night clears including one shotting Sapphiron and KT regardless without WBs.
We will be doing that in SoM. Thanks
LOL okay dude. An exploit. You have absolutely no idea how hard clearing BWL in 18 minutes is even with world buffs. Just that statement alone shows me how very little you understand about the game and how casual of a player you are.
Enjoy your pve server and the 3 hour molten cores lol.
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