If only people could amicably discuss these things 
Like this thread started off as hype for the change and got derailed by the same bad actors that make a mess of the other mm threads. Itās sad, but what can you do?
One thing we can do is choose a stance/fact to focus on and try to steer the discussion to āwhat would make this palatable/acceptable to youā
Iāll be using the fact that the listed changes are indeed coming as the example here:
Personally, I would go full tilt into the pet less MM spec if the following changes were added:
New talent: debilitating shots-your Arcane, aimed and steady shots have x chance to provide a debuff that hinders the target from getting to you
- Arcane shot: has a 30% chance of exploading in the targets face, blinding them for x seconds or until damaged by a source not the hunter
- Aimed shot has a 15% chance to hit the arget in the leg slowing them by x% for y seconds
- steady shot has a 5% chance of extending the other 2 effects by x seconds
New spell: Aspect of the ferocious-provides access to a lust ability, default being hunterās horn, and passive leech
New choice talent: aspect of the tenacious/aspect of the cunning
Aspect of the tenacious: improved health and defensives
Aspect of the cunning: improved CC, CC CD reduction
New glyphs:
- glyph of the eagle, more or less apply the visuals and such as they are listed
- glyph of the stable, your active aspect provides a random pet of the type to serve as a non-combat ally that will remain by your side and will fetch loot on your command, no attack, no utility aside from keeping you out of the thick of mob heavy areas to get loot, nothing but the āclassic duck hunters houndā in effect.
No, that is not too much to ask. But they have literally said itās not going to happen regardless. And unfortunately since itās their call, that is what is going to happen.
Hence why I posted changes that, if added in, could sell me on the pet less ideal. In fact it was the post just before yours here.
Yes, and I AGREED that itās not too much to ask. YES, it can be done. But in the end, the ONLY decision maker here is Blizzard and they have already decided. They want the easy way out. You can certainly call them lazy for doing it. Not going to argue that point. But itās their call.
We have two sides of the argument that are arguing over the changes. That is kinda the definition of a debate I thought. But on all the multiple threads on this we have BOTH sides throwing out points of arguement as if they were fact.
We ARE actually debating. Just really really badly 
Changing characters to the one most relevant to the discussion.
As well as ideas like:
and
Now these are changes that might make it into a PTR build, might not, but at least the glyphs can be added in a lesser patch.
Does not help when some breed toxicity yet appear unable to do a bit of self reflection
And as I have said, just above your post. I AGREE that the ideas put up by Antiman are valid. I even AGREED in other threads that Iād even support some of the the Pro-Pet position.
However, self reflection wise - the actual status is that BLIZZARD have decided that anything other than a pure zero pet direction is easier. Yes, you can call them lazy.
My whole commentary on ādebateā came in reply to the person who said and implied that everybody agreed with his position. And my rebuttal is that this is patently untrue since WE ARE HERE.
Yeah, which is why some of the discussion might be better off with ideas that fill the pet less spec with certain things, like the talent for shots to provide the movement debuffs.
To put it another way, if Blizzard is so intent on the zero pet route, lean into it fully and give ideas that fit into it, like if marks men are experts at targeting, canāt they, potentially, be able to hit an arm or leg to slow a mob down in some way?
BTW: this is Antimanās hunter, changed toons cause someone tried to pull the āyou donāt play the classā card
Oh I was referring to bad actors that just want to lie and argue lol.
Itās the same ones in all the threads that derail and just want to call people wrong.
Meanwhile, OTHERS try to debate, but they keep butting in 
Hey Mate. Didnāt realize it was you
Yes, there really should be more debate/feedback and allow time for ideas like you suggested to bleed into the PTR. Unfortunately, my biggest worry is that this is going to be implemented really really shortly. Itās being rushed like crazy and I am expecting it to be a buggy mess for months.
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No problem, thing is even switching toons did not stop certain people, already been called out on lack of raiding experience on hunter, when a bit of thought, if applied, could lead to the realization that this toon, like most alts, gear up in content that can be done without a group.
Some are so intent on avoiding discussions that they will look for any reason to paint others as ones that donāt know what they are talking about.
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Yeah, Iām as guilty of that too. When things got heated just before Xmas I was being just as idiotic and toxic as everybody else. Now that that is over Iām a lot more chill
I really like the changes. Iām all for a No Pet spec. Iām NOT asking for a 4th spec (thatās just silly) but Iām most definitely not confident itāll go without massive buggy problems.
As someone who primarily plays Marksman or Survival on my hunters, Iām fine with the change.
Though one person who was insistent that it was the end of the world for MM in PvP made it clear they didnāt read any of the talent changes like the buffs to Intimidate and Roar of Sacrifice to work petless with no pet pathing/AI requirements, gaining the benefit of heal reduction for aimed shot, being able to have the cunning or tenacity pet benefit without needing a pet out.
When it comes to open world as MM, even in fresh 80 gear and getting veteran gear (only at 1/8-4/8 upgrades) from the sirenās isle, they still seem more than capable of killing elites without a pet just because MM frontloads so much damage and if it canāt be kited, itās probably in an instance where you have a tank or in Delves where you have Brann being your personal babysitter so face-tanking doesnāt mean death as long as you do the basic mechanics to avoid one-shots (that every class has to deal with).
The only thing MM is going to āloseā is an AFK option to stop a healer from dropping combat and drinking in arena, but considering MMās range and the ability to just ignore LoS as ranged, is a small price to pay for the improvements they are getting.
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