Phones…best to get rid of them. All they do is wreck our games anyway! ![:wink:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=6" ":wink:")
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Wife and kid are both disabled, otherwise I wouldn’t have one.
Yeah, communication is a good reason to have one, ![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
amongst other reasons to.
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Nope. Post-legion hunter is a failure. Hardly played the last 2 xpacs. Playing other games until classic and 9.0.
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Many feel as you do.
It’s sad really.
I keep thinking that the specs now, have a lot of potential in terms of their overall design directions.
Not saying that they are even close to perfect atm.
Beast Mastery - I would like for them to keep working on the concept of either buffing your main pet along with it buffing you.
I would also want us to once again be able to choose between Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy. As I’m not really a fan of Barbed Shot(nor the Frenzy buff maintenance).
Talent wise, there are several stand-alone, press-on-cd abilities you can get through talent choices for the spec. I want less of that, and more focus on enhancing the core concept of the spec. Simply adding in more buttons, is not very engaging to me.
Marksmanship - I would mostly like them to work on the options you have regarding the pacing of the spec and how it plays. Many don’t like how slow it feels.
And really, MM has both Rapid Fire + Barrage? Isn’t one machine-gun ability enough? Personally, I don’t think that either fits the hunter class but well…
Survival (Ranged (new name needed)) - as for the ranged SV spec, my suggestions for a 4th spec, are in the link further up this thread. ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
Survival (Melee) - it seems as if most who currently plays it, like it. So based on that alone, it might be best to keep it like it is. I do however think that it could attract even more players if they decided to refocus it to be an actual melee-spec rather than this hybrid version.
Many don’t like melee combat, while many others don’t like ranged combat. By keeping this spec with a focus on both aspects, it might very well alienate even more players.
So, based on this, I would say that they should go back to what they started with in Legion, and focus on the melee-aspects.
My suggestions can be found here:
Melee Survival
We all have our preferences ofc. But…
…I’ve thought of what things I would prefer for the MSV spec to have.
Like those below:
Any abilities or talents not mentioned below, they can stay as they are IMO.
-Core Abilities-
-
Remove Kill Command.
-
Rework Raptor Strike to be the new focus builder(it can work the same as Kill Command did for the spec, just melee-based, and it shouldn’t have a cooldown).
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Drag out Mongoose Bite to become the main Spender instead of Raptor Strike.
-
Rework Serpent Sting into a mid-range CD.
Instead of you, firing a poison tipped arrow at your target, now, when you activate this ability, you coat your melee weapon(s) in snake venom for a short period.
Let’s say the ability has a 30 sec CD. The duration could be something like 15-20 seconds.
The venom itself, could work much like the old Exotic Munitions-venom we had in WoD. Where your auto shots(here, it would instead be your melee auto attacks), they would inflict that venom on the target.
The damaging effect would increase with every attack. -
Wildfire Bomb can pretty much stay as it is. Although perhaps changing it into an actual bomb with a splash effect rather than being designed with a cone in mind would be better.
No matter the design here, throwing a bomb in front of yourself does not make sense but at least the splash design allows for less annoyance.
-Talents-
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Remove the talent, Alpha Predator(no longer needed).
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Put the last tier talent, Birds of Prey in the place of Alpha Predator.
-
Talent: Viper’s Venom, could be reworked so that if it’s chosen, it causes your new Snake Venom ability, it causes the venom to spread more quickly(stack up higher with every attack).
As well as adding a chance for you to extend it’s duration on the target(s) beyond the default time(up to a set max).
Essentially, this could allow you to keep that DoT up permanently. -
Hydra’s Bite. This would now just allow you to hit 3 targets at once with your Snake Venom buff that you use on your weapon(s).
-
Bloodseeker, could work the same, just that it would involve Raptor Strike instead of Kill Command.
-
Tip of the Spear, can be renamed Sharpened Edges.
Now, when picked, as you would have Mongoose Bite baseline. This talent could be reworked to allow you to stack Mongoose Fury up faster and/or allow you to extend the duration of the buff. -
We have a free spot for a talent option in the place of Mongoose Bite.
This could be fun
New talent called Mean Duo(I love that name!).
What it would do, is this:
Each time you hit an enemy target with an ability, there’s a high chance that this will cause your pet’s next Basic Attack(Bite, Claw, Smack) to be a guaranteed critical strike.
Each time your pet hits with a Basic Attack, there’s a high chance that you gain this effect as well.
I like the synergy! -
Wildfire Infusion might have to change a bit in it’s design to better fit the new core makeup of the spec. But still, mostly, I think it’s the Pheromone Bomb infusion that needs to change. Perhaps into something that benefits your Mongoose Bite?
And last but not least!
- In the place of the talent Birds of Prey(that was moved to the first row). I would like to put in a new talent. Some of you might remember the talent: Way of the Mok’Nathal. Explanation follows.
(And no, I don’t intend to bring that specific talent design back).
What I want, is this:
A LOT of players think of the current MSV spec as a visualization of us playing as Rexxar.
The famed Hunter from Draenor that fights with 2 1-handed axes.
So…what if a talent that you call Way of the Mok’Nathal, would do just that? Allow you to equip 2 1-handed weapons.
All your melee attacks(and abilities) would now be executed with those 2 weapons instead of a 2-hander.
As for tuning…Now, you would have to tune the 1h-concept to be on par with the 2 other talents on the same talent row, instead of trying to tune it as a baseline option for players choosing between using a 2-hander or 2 1-handers.
I know it’s not as simple as this, but still, more simple than the alternative.
Considering the amount of players that would want to play with 1-handed weapons. I’d say this would be worth it.
IMO, these changes would allow for the spec to be what it was meant to be with Legion, while still, keeping it closer to the fantasy of the Hunter class.
As Yura said, most of the damage was done in Legion.
OP, I see you stopped playing mid-MoP. That’s a shame, because Survival still had some great moments in its future. In Siege of Orgrimmar the Survival 4-set made Explosive Shot sometimes not consume a Lock and Load charge so you could get crazy chains of Explosive Shots. They tried to work this into the WoD iteration by changing how Lock and Load worked but it didn’t make it out of beta (and now we know why…). SV was really good at the start of WoD, too. It was mostly the same spec, but Serpent Sting became a passive tied to Arcane Shot and Rapid Fire and Kill Shot were removed from the spec. There was a new stat called Multistrike that interacted well with SV and some bad luck protection on Lock and Load, but otherwise it was the same gameplay. It did really well in Highmaul (after the initial hotfixes it became the game’s most popular spec!) and then fell to “decent” status in Blackrock Foundry. Patch 6.2 with Hellfire Citadel, unfortunately, utterly butchered the spec. They made a seemingly small change to Serpent Sting that ended up gutting the whole spec (removing the initial tick) and the HFC raid was designed specifically for the types of damage SV was bad at (i.e. CD/add burst). Then they made it melee in 7.0, the Legion patch.
Legion was not kind to Hunters. They remade all three specs, with Survival of course being something totally different. It was actually totally different to the current Survival, too. They remade SV again in 8.0. Same for MM; it was just about entirely different in Legion. BM is mostly intact with some key changes.
Not many of the Legion changes were received well by the general Hunter playerbase. They were trying to make a clear and defined theme for each spec and make them more distinguishable. The problem is they went way too far and it felt like switching between different classes. Also, we lost quite a lot of abilities going into Legion; it was “pruning” fever at Blizzard HQ and they were removing abilities that they thought had no purpose or were too similar to those of other classes. For example, we lost Tranquilising Shot, Kill Shot, and Distracting Shot. For a while, SV was the only spec that had traps at all. On top of all this, a lot of the baseline abilities got moved to talents. Chimera Shot became a BM talent, Explosive Shot became an MM talent (and also turned into something entirely different and extremely terrible), Master’s Call became a Survival-only PvP talent before becoming the Cunning pet ability, Scatter Shot and a knockback Explosive Trap are PvP talents, and so on. It makes the class feel a lot less capable and much more dependent on specific talent/gear choices. A lot of classes have this problem (e.g. a lot of iconic abilities such as Haunt, Hammer of Wrath, and Shadow Word: Death are now talents) but Hunters were one of the worst examples.
It seems like the class developers in charge of Hunters in Legion were a particularly dangerous mixture of eager and willing to make large changes and lacking in the knowledge and understanding of the class to make sure they were the right changes. I do think it’s better in BFA for all three specs but it’s still a far cry from what came before Legion.
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Agree with much of what you’re saying here Bepples!
We all have our preferred versions of the spec/design. It’s all subjective really.
Or…I should say that most of it is. Overall the SV spec was designed to have a very fluid/smooth gameplay. It wasn’t meant to be a huge burster or relying on heavy hits. The core of the spec that is.
Have heard this from others as well. I played in the MoP Beta, and I wasn’t a huge fan of what the new talents did for the spec(more so, what they did NOT do).
I came back for WoD as I really wanted to play through that story. Many hated WoD for various reasons. My opinion, is that I liked most of the stuff that we actually got. Granted it wasn’t a whole lot. But apart from Tanaan Jungle, and mostly the continued talent design, I liked most of it.
The leveling experience in WoD, it felt really good if you ask me. They managed to really involve us as players with building outposts and it felt like we actually explored the new content(new to us).
Opinions on Highmaul as a raid, varies a lot. I liked the theme. There were some good variation in the encounters and how they played.
Blackrock Foundry, I can say the same for. I really liked it.
Hellfire Citadel, was a bit more of a divided opinion for me. Some fights, I liked. Others, not so much. Mostly, it was also about the general aesthetics and design of the place.
As for our Garrisons, the base concept, was very intriguing. I liked the profession buildings + some of the other buildings that we could get.
The Shipyard and Naval missions, I felt could’ve been a bit better. Something more than, you went down there, looked at the docks and what ships you had. You clicked the command table and started a few missions. And that was it.
Looking back, I would’ve preferred it if we had scrapped the Garrison concept entirely and focused on creating a place within the Ashran hubs that was similar to buildings in the garrison.
We could’ve kept all the outposts throughout the zones, and let some of the buildings from the garrison remain within those outposts. Such as, stables, and more.
Anyway, enough about WoD.
Did not actually know of this. As I did not play during MoP(came back during the WoD pre-patch).
Yeah, a shame idd. For us old ranged SV lovers
Was not a fan of this. I get why they did it. But still, not a fan.
Aspect of the Fox
Party and raid members within 40 yards take on the aspects of a fox, allowing them to move while casting all spells for 6 seconds. Only one Aspect can be active at a time. 3 minute cooldown.
I would not mind getting this back…
Sure, it’s a niche ability. But it deff had it’s use.
Black Arrow‘s cooldown is reset if it’s dispelled.
This is another thing that would be really helpful(and fun) in PvP. In PvE, you wouldn’t really gain any benefit from this anyway.
But for PvP, combine with the design from my suggestions, this could make for a fun addition. (Maybe)
In general, I would not mind it if, for PvP especially, dispelling the SV DoTs, would be harmful in itself.
The fact that SV did not have any major CD at all during WoD, was a bit of a bummer if you ask me. It was not intended as a burst spec, I get that. But to not really have anything at all?
Kill shot, I would say that if people want it for PvP purposes, by all means. For PvE, I haven’t missed it at all. Much because it doesn’t really live up to it’s name(and it never could really).
This is why I would suggest(am suggesting in my spec design), that any execute-effects for a ranged SV spec, should be based on increased damage/crit or other things. Not on instant hitters.
It did, though I would say that it wasn’t that interesting of a stat anyway. Most of the time at least. Part from the beneficial effect to L&L that is.
Ah yes, and we all know why…sadly.
That did not help either.
Although, this focuses more on performance rather than gameplay(IMO). Ofc it matters, as it often determines the popularity and viability of a spec in e.g. content.
Opinions vary ofc. Like they always do.
Idd.
Some of which, I did not like.
The removal of letting us choose between Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy, being one of them. As for BM, I liked Dire Frenzy more than I like Barbed Shot. But hey, people wanted another ranged ability for BM so…
Might not be a popular opinion, but I don’t mind that each spec has an identity of it’s own. That it has a unique playstyle. (includes offensive talents).
What I think of more, is all the extra abilities tied to the entire class rather than single specs. The ones we lost.
Yeah…not the best choice they’ve made.
Abomination! -I think is the word you’re looking for
Anyway, if you look at the specs today and if we were to get that 4th spec option with Explosive Shot being the top focus(pretty much), I would say that if MM keeps a version of Explosive Shot. I would not be against it.
For MM, it would be optional, and ranged SV would be the spec where you really focus on mastering using the most of the ability/explosives.
Heck, speaking of class fantasy and letting 1 spec be really good at something that the other specs are not, even though they can have optional access to a version of it.
Yeah, the class as a whole really need this ability back baseline, for all pets…
I agree.
It looks like it yeah.
More so, perhaps lacking in knowledge on what many of the players want out of the class? Who knows really, it’s just speculation on my part. I have no idea why they made the choices they made. I don’t know the whole story.
As there’s always more to it than what we’re told.
Sorry OP, BM is what everyone is playing now. It is really good in all content, and will get you invites into Mythic Plus keys. Survival is good in PvP and MM just not really good at anything, don’t expect an invite to a M+ group as MM or Surv, at least from me anyway.
Edit: get yourself a spirit beast, it is a game changer for BM - real nice self heals on a 30 sec cooldown.
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To be fair, I didn’t quit wow because I didn’t like being a hunter. My guild was a top 50-60 US 25 man guild and raiding at that level was just exhausting. We only raided 3 nights a week, but all the other nights were filled with raiding, farming, studying boss fights etc. It was just so much work it started feeling like a job and not fun.
Yeah I noticed that. I appreciate some of the changes, because I did feel like hunters had a lot more keybinds than other classes, but I agree it went too far. Some of our iconic abilities are now gone or spec specific.
My whole “wow career” was tied up in being a hunter. I’m already considering canceling my sub again because it’s so overwhelming to come back and everything is so different, I’ve lost track of just about everyone I knew, and I don’t even think any guild (that would be up to my standards) would take me at this point.
I considered playing classic, but jesus christ, when I think about running around until level 40, having to feed a pet to keep it happy, buying arrows again, hunter dead zones, etc - is that even worth it too! UGH!
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ya good ideas but im just kinda over it. spent 2 betas giving feedback and i dont care anymore. playing bard on ff14 now and it’s probably better than any hunter spec ive played anyway.
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I only got to level 53 as a Bard so I know I’m missing some later stuff. I liked Bard a lot, but one thing I HATED was how cumbersome multidotting was. You had 2 almost-identical DoTs, both on the GCD which is 2.5 secs in that game, so it took forever to DoT up the mobs you were fighting. From what I heard there is an ability you get later on that alleviates this, which is good and all but I feel like this is something that should be solved earlier, plus if you do a low level dungeon you can’t use your high-level abilities anyway (dumb decision IMO). Why exactly does Bard need two DoTs that effectively do the same thing, anyway?
What I really liked about Bard was how they tied a strong damage incentive into multidotting. I don’t remember the exact interaction but it gave you points/damage or whatever towards your current song phase, which was a gain for your single target and AoE. A problem with ranged Survival was you could multidot but there was very little reason to beyond raw damage of the DoT, which realistically wasn’t a lot. Black Arrow could have provided such an incentive but you couldn’t multidot with it most of the time. There were only a couple attempts at that: the MoP beta where Black Arrow became a 1.5 sec cast that gave Black Arrow to all nearby enemies to the target (didn’t make it through beta) and WoD patch 6.2 where the Archimonde trinket for Survival made Black Arrow reset option. That last one was really run but as we know well SV was nerfed to uselessness in that patch so it didn’t matter. This is why concepts for ranged SV such as mine and Ghorak’s have inbuilt incentives/support for multidotting.
That is true yes. The spec was much about DoTs. But the actual potential to multi-dot, wasn’t what it was aiming for at the time.
Don’t know if you have checked my suggestions out Bepps,
Edit: NVM! 
And sure, they wouldn’t give you the same capability to multi-dot like locks or SPs can do.
But depending on how you choose to play and spec into talents, you certainly could gain some from multi-dotting.
#https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/4th-spec-pre-legion-survival-spec-fantasy/47579
As for the general design, it might not be perfect for everyone.
But hopefully, it can give a sense of direction towards what the spec could be focusing on, fantasy wise.
It was a lot of fun yes. Based parts of my design on that reset-mechanic. Sure, not in the exact sam way but…
Yes, sadly SV was kinda at the bottom at that point. Had to go MM for mythic 
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They gutted all classes when WoD came out. You played the last time in the games history when classes were full and engaging.
Just finished my dinner while watching the WFR.
They were talking about the Hunter class and what benefits/disadvantages it has.
It was so nice to hear, or well, actually it’s sad to hear as well, that due to encounters are designed nowadays, they said:
Hunters survive fairly well. Especially BM. They do good damage. They can burst.
But hunters don’t have DoTs…
This rings so much truth.
When it comes down to splitting damage. Funneling damage. Or overall dealing with several targets(especially when they are spread out). Hunters just aren’t in a good place to be considered.
Spec identity, design and fantasy aside. Considering the way most encounters are made today, as soon as it becomes about one of the above situations, this becomes an argument for why we should have the old SV back.
Now, I will always prio the uniqueness and the fantasy above numbers and performance. But it just felt so good hearing that. And why it’s more motivation to bring the spec back.
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As long as you ignore MSV then that statement is correct.
No Whim, I’m not ignoring MSV. I never said that it’s not a hunter spec…I dno why you even say that this is what I’m doing.
It’s true that the quote stated that “Hunter’s don’t have DoTs”. And while you might interpret this as them saying that, we have no DoT’s at all.
They are obviously talking about our capabilities to multi-DoT. Or overall capability to deal with spread targets.
Sure, MM has 1 DoT + 1 CD(AMoC).
Serpent Sting. But that won’t exactly make MM very attractive for fights where this is a big advantage to be able to bring.
MSV, has a bit more in terms of DoT-capabilities yes. You have Serpent Sting that you can talent for multi-target applications, as well as Wildfire Bomb baseline which can help for multiple stacked targets.
You can also get A Murder of Crows, but as with MM, it’s a CD.
None of the above screams that the Hunter class has specs you can consider to be very useful for such encounters.
Sry if I did not make this clear, to be what the intent with that post was.
Answered in the other thread.
Reading it atm
Edit: replied in that thread as well.^^
#We need range Survival Hunters back - #636 by Ghorak-laughing-skull
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A lot of the classes feel very boring without major dps cds
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I miss deadzone. Brought something else to the game. Something to be aware of and made kiting very important. It was also cool to have 2 daggers and a bow.
The only thing i like about hunter after WOD is lonewolf. They didnt even do lonewolf right tbh. 10% damage but none of the utility a pet would give you, so its never going to be viable in pvp.