I'm a 2004 original player... here's my thoughts on GDKP

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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(3-week update at bottom)

I’m a mid-40’s original player from 2004 who also played in 2019 and SoM. I play Vanilla exclusively. I’ve always been in progression guilds varying from casual to sweaty, usually with LC systems of some sort. Coming back to Era now, I decided to give GDKP’s a try. Here’s my take…

I don’t see what the big deal is. It’s a pretty efficient system, isn’t it? It allows super geared Naxx players to profit from running newer players through content and teaching them the mechanics. That’s cool. Otherwise, why on earth would they run these raids? They probably wouldn’t, and new players would get stuck and stall out.

They get paid. I get to do the content and get geared. Everybody wins.

For the record, I didn’t swipe my credit card. I had about 3k gold saved by the time I hit 60. I immediately got into a few ZGs, looted some decent items for minimum bids of 300/500g each, then progressed to MC and BWL, where I got 1 piece in each raid for the minimum, and I still have 1.5k leftover. That’s an average of 1 loot per run, WAY more than I ever got playing progression guilds in 2004, 2019 and SoM. Mostly, my cut paid for these pieces, or I lost a little bit of gold overall if I splurged on something really good. No biggie. I’m slowly getting geared, I’m having fun, and they’re getting paid. Everybody wins. A few weeks of this, and I’ll probably be ready for AQ40.

Does it fuel RMT? I dunno, I’m skeptical. It certainly hasn’t in my case. If anything, I’ve felt less of a need to buy gold this time around because I have access to GDKP’s now. If I’m smart about buying stuff for the minimum bids, I can loot decent stuff and still get a small cut to grow wealth. Or, if I forego looting for a run or two, I grow wealth faster.

The GDKP’ers I’ve met so far have all been insanely chill. They’re clearly very experienced players and they run smooth raids. They move fast (which I appreciate), but still somehow seem patient towards new players at the same time, which seems like the perfect blend, doesn’t it? They are just happy you’re there to buy stuff and increase their pot.

The GDKP add-on (Gargul) is also super cool and very efficient. It’s like shopping, I love it!

So anyway, I don’t see what the big fuss is about. As an old-school gamer who remembers the original days of Vanilla very fondly, I kinda think this is a great little evolution that’s probably helped to keep the server going. I could be wrong, but I doubt Era would still be so active without it.

If RMT is really the concern here, then crack down on bots and the gold buyers. But don’t ban community driven ideas. I don’t think that’s where the root of the issue lies.

Just my 2 cents.

UPDATE

Update: 3 weeks later, I have some additional thoughts after doing a bunch more GDKPs… I have noticed some of the drawbacks now.

  1. GDKP hoarding is very much a thing, just like it was back in the day with DKP. This basically gatekeeps certain items away from casuals because they can’t keep up with the GDKP of hardcores. This was fine when I was gearing up and happy to take 3rd and 4th BiS. But once I got geared and set my eyes on the really good stuff, I quickly realized I didn’t really have a chance at these items without buying gold. Most of these people have been raiding non-stop on 3-6 characters for like a year, collecting gold the whole time. They basically have unlimited. The best items go for 20-40k gold, while I’m only making 1-2k gold per run (if I don’t loot anything)… this means I’ll be able to afford ONE BiS piece every 10-20 runs. I don’t really have a chance unless I buy gold.
  2. Some could argue, this is working as intended… why should I, being a fresh 60 for a month, be able to realistically compete against someone who’s been waiting a year to get some of this stuff? They’ve put in the time. I haven’t.
  3. I did run into one scammer. He screwed the raid by skimming the cuts and hoped nobody would notice. People did notice and called him out on it. He ended up (mostly) paying people out, but only did so because he got caught. The totals were messed up and he had to just guesstimate. A handful of people got screwed out of 70g or so each. Those that noticed got their proper cuts. 70g isn’t really that big of a deal, but still… not a good experience.

I decided to try a couple SR runs instead and immediately noticed different kinds of drawbacks.

  1. These runs took easily twice as long, sometimes more. People were disorganized, undisciplined on comms, and there were many needless wipes and a lot more general negativity in the comms because of it. It wasn’t nearly as smooth or fun. I nearly left one out of frustration dealing with people who felt like Discord was their personal stage to tell stupid jokes and chat about what they ate today (in the middle of an encounter that was not going well)… One guy abnoxiously burst out laughing so GD loud in the middle of an encounter when the raid leader was trying to direct the raid because a buddy of his (not in the raid) happened to whisper him something he thought was hilarious. Like, $TFU dude, nobody gives a sh!t what you find funny. I’m sorry, but I don’t have time for this crap. Nothing frustrates me more than stupid shi!t like that.
  2. The couple SR runs I did were almost just as unfair on loot. I got 3 SRs each time, not a single one of my SRs dropped, so I’m SOL I guess? RIP.
  3. A bunch of other stuff dropped that wasn’t reserved by anyone so they were open rolled. Cool! Except out of like 9 rolls I didn’t win a single one, despite showing up prepared, bringing full consumes and WBs, topping the healing metres each time, I got nothing. Meanwhile, another player ended up winning 4 rolls in one raid, despite not even having pre-raid BIS, wasn’t attentive, didn’t know the fights, and was bottom of the healing metres. Gimme a break.

I’ve decided to stick with GDKPs. Are they perfect? No. But it’s a pretty efficient system overall, and the general calibre of players seems much higher. they are generally more chill, better raid leaders, better prepared, and better players in general. And at least I can slowly work towards the gear I want rather than losing random rolls to unprepared scrubs.

At least in a GDKP, undergeared players are paying for their carry. In a SR, they’re just taking advantage of everyone else who’s working twice as hard as them.

Sorry, but I don’t have time for that.

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Yeah it is a great system, which is why Era has lots of GDKP raid.

The real benefits far outweigh the potential downsides.

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These players are raiding because they need items from the raids. Because GDKP allows players to farm DKP on any character and pool it to a main, the players fall into two groups:
A: Players who are swiping for “DKP”.
B: Players who are self-enslaved by farming “DKP” on 6+ characters each week.

If you’ve ever played Lost Ark - this is the precise scheme that they use to push players into swiping their credit card. As soon as you set your eyes on an item that was not going to rot anyway, you will be picking team A or B.

You are in an endless DKP rat-race no matter which group you are in. The raid leaders are selling their double/triple/quad cut of the GDKP right back to the players in group A for cash.

DKP was the most popular loot system in 2004. GDKP is a DKP system which RMTers use to exploit the playerbase. Because most players want to PUG and not form a guild these days (kind of reasonable since Classic WoW raids are unbelievably easy), Blizz can add an official DKP loot system (character bound) so that people can do the same thing except it is not possible to RMT the DKP anymore. When I think about a Blizz enforced DKP system, it sounds so effective at stopping the RMT of raid items, that I feel they should remove Master Loot entirely.

Basically, you are describing all of the benefits of a DKP system while ignoring all of the downsides of G-DKP. Which is what RMT cockroaches always exploit when they are defending their hustle on the forums.

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How’s this one go? In real life. if an organization is known to launder money, but not all of the people in the organization are doing it, you still eliminate the orgainzation.

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Its better than that… everyone can be paid and this will be usually enough to pay for future consumables so you can contribute better. Its an excellent system long as people dont buy gold and pollute the pot.

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and we like well organized raids, reliable rewards, and a fun time.

Imagine enjoying the game :wink:

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All possible with DKP instead of RMT-DKP. Obviously. Unless the rewards you’re talking about are USD.

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I can use dkp to buy pvp consumes or boosts for alts?

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Nope, gotta get out there and enjoy the world instead of turning it into Lost Ark.
Even if the Blizz DKP idea involved account bound DKP instead of character bound DKP you would still take issue because you are an RMT-parasite like all people who defend RMT-DKP on the forums all day.

Edit:
Also, you could of course implement a barter NPC that sells stuff for DKP.

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Funny how comfortable you are telling me how to enjoy the game.

I’ll do my 1.5 hour naxx and turn that 5k into 25 flasks that I’ll chug for pvp and laugh as you cry.

Maybe try not micromanaging others and you will find more enjoyment.

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Seems like the rat is baring her teeth at the thought of someone taking her cheese.

I’m not micromanaging anyone. I’m explaining the deception of GDKP to the people you like to lie to. Far worse than a rat, really, since rats can’t lie and don’t know any better anyway.

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right after typing:

truly an absolutekek

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Yeah, it’s a direct consequence of not being able to RMT the gold for consumes anymore… sorry for the extremely drastic jump of…direct logical consequence. Deleting RMT raiding will indeed have a consequence on RMTers. I’ll go slower for you.

I guess Blizz is also micromanaging all the hackers every time they ban their bots. Just lol. You’re the same guy who tried to say you found “my warrior” because it was a character with the same name, right?

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Imagine paying to get the loot you worked for. So glad all my friends and I quit before it got like this.

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GDKP is known to launder money. the whole thing has to go , to be certain (it doesn’t persist))…~!

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so does the ah

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It is indeed a great system. That is why it is the most popular raid method in the game that the most enjoy

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well, 1 out of 2 gone isn’t b((ad))…

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though, ((if)) given the choice;; people will still take the route to profit even when it is in a grey area…}}

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2 killers are looking for your family. 1 is caught but we cant find the other. we refuse to dispatch security to your home tonight

the truth is you just dont like the loot system and are making an excuse as to why (rmt except non gdkp players have a bigger incentive to buy gold since they lose money in raid rather than gaining it and have to farm for mats so they buy gold for mats instead)