Sylvanas was used to wreck everyone’s favorite sports team players and also ruin an entire faction.
Tbqafh if she’s never seen or heard from again, it will be too soon.
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Sylvanas story simply ruined both factions (anduin to is a large issue there) there was no way to essentially like her or empathise with her actions. Having a Faction war with these two characters at the head was like having two of the biggest the worst possible coach and captains of your preferred sports team.
it was nothing to do with the fact she is female and more that she dragged the Horde down with her into stupidity and then the Alliance had to come down to that level as well to the point that you couldn’t take the story seriously at all.
I also hated illidan in Legion as well, I couldn’t understand why were letting him run around free. However atleast there wasn’t anyone forgiving him or having heart to hearts with him. He got the darthvader treatment in a sense where instead of facing all his crimes he basically got locked up again in another world.
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I have extreme bias as I sort’ve called his characterization from the beginning of Legion, not that it was that big of a foretelling. He’s always leaned more anti-hero than pure villain, despite his presentation in TBC.
Besides, as Meldaea mentioned, it’s likely easier to set his villainous behaivior aside as it was attached to the oldest expansion of the game.
That has been her thing since WC 3. There is a certain Charm she has.
I figured Blizzard might go the whole “absolve Orc fans at all costs while lumping all the sins on the Lady” route, and just say Sylvanas used her Jailer enhanced Charm skills on Sourpuss to get him to agree.
A Good War mentions a certain glint in her eye during their discussion - to me it seemed as if Blizzard was placing an escape hatch in case they wanted to make her Charm abilities an excuse.
That has been a thing since vanilla. I mean one of the first quests for Night Elves after their initial questing hub is helping out a satyr. A SATYR.
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Blizzard waited far, far too long to introduce the concepts of the fracturing of a soul as a result of Frostmourne and applying this to Sylvanas.
You can’t just shoe-horn in nuance. Had they – years earlier – introduced something similar to the scene in which we see the “Good” side of Sylvanas with Uther, the entire saga would have been so much less divisive.
In addition, having Sylvanas (as well as everyone else) aware of the state she was in would have forced accountability into the picture. Accountability is something that Sylvanas lacked – it’s also something that Illidan had in spades and there was no doubt about it.
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I think part of it is the planning of their storylines. Illidan’s was a solid block that lasted an entire expansion. Sylvanas’s dragged out over a prolonged period of time in which that story got bent to create a framework. Each bend was an inconsistency that cheapened the story. One is something akin to the Sistine Chapel while the other is Mr Bean trying to correct the Mona Lisa.
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At this point, given the vast array of in-canon dragon/demons/would-be gods we’ve killed, I just rp my characters as virtually psychotically mercenary/fearless.
“Look, whatever your name is… you’re offering me gold and treasure if I help you unlock this ancient tomb? Fine. That’s fine. If this is a trick, I’ll put you and whatever it is that comes out on that big pile of corpses I’ve already thrown the Elemental lords, Lich King, Kael’Thas, Deathwing, Thunder King, Xavius, and so many less memorable opponents who liked giving the same boring speech about how they were undefeatable. I swear, the same. Boring. Speech. So unoriginal. Do we understand each other?”
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Mine are all pretty similar - though with more of “Archer” thrown in.
Attacking an elite rare with way more health:
“Things, just, usually work out for me…”
Aoe massive amounts of mobs - especially lower level:
“RAMPAAGGGGEEEE!!!”
Melee range:
“if I am forced to use a sword in combat, I just swing it around like a baseball bat while screaming, at the top of my lungs: “There can be only one!” Which, if done correctly, is surprisingly effective.”
Annoyed by a betrayal:
“I can’t hear you over the sound of now I’m punching you!”
When a quest chain takes me off the beaten path for what I was trying to solve:
"All I wanted to do was find out who killed my partner Woodhouse, and the next thing I know I’ve disappeared up my own —, and I’m manumitting sex slaves and grossly abusing corpses and trying to source a finger for some weird psychosexual kidnapping, and then, to top off all the --------, getting chased by ----- ROBOTS!! I mean, ---- halberts”
Finding a town full of weirdos:
“Idiots doing idiot things, because they are idiots.”
Dying from fall damage:
“Eat a ——, gravity.”
You get the picture. They have some small differences.
My Tauren (highmountain and standard - Warrior and Druid) and a bit unaware of their size and also more than a bit goofy. Drunken Archer with the laugh.
Vulpera DK is super fierce - a bit like Rocket in Guardians of the Galaxy. More angry Archer.
Blood Elf embraces the value of the tactical turtleneck and other fashion ensembles.
Mag’har Shaman views the elements with less reverence and more - well - they work for him. Like employees. And bring back money.
A bit of Indiana Jones in my Orc Hunter. A lot of yelling “WOO!”
Zandalari Pally is a bit more - well he wears the biggest armor and weapons that are the brightest whites and golds to … cover up his own insecurities … about his impious nature.
I can’t really figure out my nightborne mage or undead rogue so I don’t play them as much. Plus I can’t figure out how to Rogue well. So that doesn’t help.
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You’re going to have to explain what you mean by this, because that scene would have had a very different outcome without Teldrassil.
It did seem strange wording but what I took from that was that :
Blizzard should have built up the whole “chopped up soul” business waaaay earlier. Perhaps threaded small details about it over time. Instead of just dropping it on us all at once as if it is the missing piece of the puzzle they kept from us all these years.
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If you’d have read further, I tied it to the idea of accountability.
That still doesn’t make any sense, hence why I asked to explain.
I mean the problem here is it isn’t a missing puzzle piece, it’s a plot contrivance to force Sylvanas into a ‘What have I become’ moment.
The real missing piece - that was wholly planned for the last decade - was revealed in the book.
Where we found out Sylvanas is just stupid.
In fairness they’d already run her through the gauntlet of other personalities and traits - stupid blind follower might as well be one. It fits well next to emotionless 5D chess master.
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But they couldn’t do that because it was blindingly obvious that it wasn’t a thing until they put it into the folktale book. Just like they never gave any hint that dragons permanently chose their visages at their coming-of-age ceremonies before then. Both those story points weren’t invented until the time the book came out.
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Illidan’s story was better written and despite alleged retcons, were still far more coherent and consistent.
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https://i.imgur.com/qrMpjg4.jpg
Basically how I see Dreadmoore tbh.
Side note but this is why I like Iridikrons characterisation so far. He takes us as a threat seriously. Which is why they have to rely on stealth and trickery until they can get an edge over us.
He might not know of our truly heroic feats, like killing a Titan (Argus) and a domination enhanced Eternal One (Zovaal) but the first thing he saw upon being set free was Razzy lying on the ground dead.
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It makes sense. I’m not sure how it doesn’t. It may not be up to your standards of an explanation, but your standard may be too high – let’s not start to pretend that Blizzard’s storytelling has been particularly strong in the first place.
Fact is, it’s the puzzle piece that we got.
BIG EDIT: Just to elaborate - outside of anything to do with Shadowlands, a sure way to win a war is so annihilate the enemy capital. To that end, what she did was a success. Even without anything involving Shadowlands: The splitting of her soul having her skill carry out truly heinous acts still “works” as an explanation - the only difference is her head would be on a pike right about now. Having her (and her followers) struggle with accountability would have been stronger writing.
I actually think that the burning of Teldrassil was brilliant. Absolutely messed up, henious, but it’s an act of war and a straight-up war crime. I also like Sylvanas as a character, but I’d happily have seen her killed off in order to give The Forsaken a new future, and instead that being the end-goal of the War of Thorns arc, rather than anything Jailer related. At the same time giving the back Night Elves their drive for vengeance as a whole, as honestly their edge was softened far too much in between WC3 and now.
But unfortunately Shadowlands happened whether we like it or not.
At least Illidan remained consistent in his motivations, there were no curve-balls or shoe-horned explainations as to what he was doing. He knew he’d be accountable.
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Accountability is literally the entire point of the soul coma. If she didn’t accept everything she did and continued to deny it she would still be unconscious.
It’s not good writing but the point is still there.