I’m sorry but how is adding a raid with no new gear or quests or anything of the sort be going with the grain of what made vanilla, vanilla? You can’t have that ‘classic+’ cake and eat it too.
How many times did “insert prefered post vanilla change” come up on the forums between blizzcon 2017 and launch?
Yep. My uncle played a rogue and i played a paladin. He taught me how
Oh yeah, you played a Paladin when you were 2 years old? That’s amazing dude.
There is no reason to have Wrath+, Blizzard should just release Cata classic, it would be much better!
No. I started when i was 5. In 2007.
Approximately 17.
And there were people tired of those threads just like they’re tired of these threads. Going to have to mute notifications on this one now because I can tell you’re the type of person who has to be right and won’t leave me be…sigh…
Content design and fight mechanics. More challenges to overcome. More stuff to see and do. Not just raids, new dungeons too…
I’m not opposed to new gear rewards also, but it’s not necessary to me. I merely suggested it as a compromise between people who don’t want additional content and those who do. If new gear dropped, people who don’t want that content would feel like they have to do it. If it’s just new content to explore, those people who stubbornly want to not partake are free to do so.
I can see why you, or others, might not like that. Many people tie their character’s power progression to the WoW experience (both retail and classic). This is fair but I also don’t know if it would be a deal breaker. Consider Dire Maul… it came with new gear, and some of it are upgrades, but a lot of it is side grades. It’s new content that came out well after release, but it’s also beloved by many and is embraced by the no changes crowed.
It’s just more stuff to do.
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classic+ would not succeed.
Adding this content, and just suggesting other players to not play it really isn’t that far off of just forcing out TBC and telling people “Just don’t go to outland if you don’t want to”. I am for TBC so I personally don’t care if things are forced to change or not, I’m just saying there are some people who only want vanilla. Period.
Forcing classic+ onto the same server as vanilla is basically just forcing TBC on them as well. Also, classic+ would take way more work from blizzard for something they don’t know if it would be a success or not, TBC would be the easiest, most wanted, version of classic+ that anyone could ask for.
Mmmhmm.
TBC brings a lot more than just content. It also brings with it significant class changes. I’m not sure if you could have these exist on the same server. As such, the only way to achieve it would be to offer a character copy to a new server so the people who wanted that content could go there and the people who didn’t could stay. As you (and others) have pointed out, this splits the player base.
Additional classic content though, keeps the classes as they are but adds more things for people to do. While I may not understand people’s desire to simply not do it, they’re certainly free to do so and the server population remains together so that people are available to do all forms of content.
So no, classic+ and TBC are not the same thing at all.
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just launch tbc servers or launch classic tbc on classic wow servers even less work and more profit.
I think a lot of people are worried that it will split the player base. It is a valid concern, but the outcome might not be as severe as people sometimes like to think. I mean, there was a time when people thought that a LFG addon would drastically split the player base, so much so that Blizzard even posted saying they were going to block it…
They didn’t, the addon has been out and is used by many, and the player base is not split.
Of course, that’s just a conceptual split… moving a portion of the population to a different server is a more tangible split and I think would have an impact.
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Which is why I said it isn’t that far of a stretch. Having this new content would add more gear, possible new gold farming spots, new quests, etc… This stuff would inevitably bleed into the original ‘classic’ wow effecting it drastically. Like yeah, you might have the same abilities and balance as you had, but the group around you and everyone participating in the new content will 100% have an effect on the world around you. Essentially forcing this game on you similar to how TBC would function.
Classic+ in the form you’re speaking about just isn’t logical. On blizzard’s end or our end. It would take way too much man power to develop this ‘new’ content while keeping the feel of vanilla, while also not effecting others who don’t want it. When instead they could basically just do a CTRL+C CTRL+V outland content on a seperate set of servers. Or find a way to intertwine both expacs all together if they have some crazy tech when that time comes.
TBC is already a guarantee win, with minimal effort.
This is just silly thinking… this is like saying wow classic itself split the playerbase.
Look believe it or not, the majority of people are going to get bored of wow classic at some point and just straight up leave… this is just going to happen we can’t stop it. TBC is an option blizzard has to keep those subs coming in for a couple more years. And honestly maybe they will be more likely to stay in the vanilla classic version for raid nights if they have nothing to do in the TBC version.
It isn’t going to ‘split’ the playerbase anymore than stagnant content is just going to allow them to leave.
Late vanilla is still vanilla correct?
I was 5 when i started, he set me up with a hunter bc leveling was easy.
During bc i swapped to paladin.
In this particular line of discussion, I’m exploring an option that doesn’t add new gear that impacts player power. Just alternative options. In this scenario, people who don’t want to do the content aren’t compelled to do so. Those who don’t care, or want to see some new stuff instead of running X over and over again, are free to do so. Very different than forcing an entire design change on the entirety of the player base.
I think it depends on what Blizzard wants to do with this thing they’ve given us. Whether or not you agree, there is demand for new classic content. There is also demand for TBC. They can go in either direction, or both.
Though people may not want to admit it, Blizzard still is a company that embodies a lot of passion for what they do. At its core, all business are about making money, but game developers are also about expressing creativity to make things that they, and others, will enjoy. There’s a lot of opportunity here.
Classic absolutely did split the player base though. A lot of people are no longer playing retail to play classic. Servers have felt the impact. For myself, I still log into retail to raid, but classic takes up the majority of my non-raiding time because it’s just want I want to do right now. So we have two version of the game splitting the community… TBC will effectively turn that into three version of the game, dividing the community further. Understand that I’m not saying TBC servers would be bad, I’m simply acknowledging the argument that this will have a negative impact on server populations and exploring a concept that might provide meaningful things for people to experience without having that result.
I think we are both on the same page though that classic needs something. I agree that, over time, classic will stagnate if it does not change. People will leave and it will die off. Such is the nature of things. We both agree here. You’re suggesting that Blizzard take the easy route, I’m suggesting Blizzard capitalize on the interest and create something interesting and new. To be honest with you, whatever way they go, there’s going to be stuff that people will enjoy.
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And this wouldn’t fall in the lines of what everyone is calling classic+. Adding new content that offers you literally ‘nothing’ is not vanilla. It’s not even anything WoW has ever done. If you are just going to exclude this content from these rules and say ‘Well we still have our spells and everything so it’s still in the essence of vanilla’ is the textbook definition of cherrypicking. This would without a doubt, no matter what you do, effect the feel of the classic gameplay that the people who ONLY want vanilla have been asking for. This is what I’m talking about having your cake and eat it too, you just can’t do it.
If you didn’t change anything about it, theoretically, and simply just add new zones or raids or dugneons with literally nothing new to add to strive for, this type of ‘expansion’ or whatever you want to call it would fail right out of the gate. You would spend all this time developing all this stuff for nothing. People would check it out for a month and then either continue in vanilla as they would have normally or just leave, there’s nothing to work toward.
There may be opportunity here, but it’s not under the wing of classic. Classic has been said over and over and over and over and over and over and over and…(get it yet) that this is a museum piece. This is to reflect and show what WoW use to be. The opportunity is to either make TBC to show what that was like, or use strategies that sell in classic and use them in retail.
You simply can not, at the same time, keep classic WoW a museum while also adding new content. At SOME point you are going to have to start adding something like new gear, new quests, new ways to farm gold, SOMETHING. Otherwise you are making all this stuff for nothing.
The main point I was attempting to make is that doing something like this is a bad thing. It’s not. The people who only want to play retail get to play retail still. If the people want to play both, they can play both. If they only came back for classic, they can do this as well.
If you are going to force players on one platform in fear of ‘splitting’ up the playerbase, you are just going to lose a massive amount of your audience.
People who say this (normally) are just fearing that they are going to lose their guildies to a different version of the game. Well guess what, if you don’t offer something for a majority of the playerbase then they will just leave anyway. Blizzard doesn’t care if they have 1mil subs all on one version of the game rather than 1 mil split across 2. A sub is a sub.
Bringing in a version of the game people will OBVIOUSLY go to and bring in even more/keep more people in is going to be something a company wants. Not something they should shy away from because “Well what if everyone goes over there and leaves this version?”. That’s nonsense.
What would happen to these versions of the game if TBC doesn’t happen? Those people would would have just left for TBC are just going to eventually quit and send their money elsewhere. Yeah sure, some people might have played classic until the day they died but then switch to TBC when it comes out, but this is NOT the majority of players.
Classic has it’s fan base that will stay, tbc has their fan base that will stay, and retail has their fan base that will stay. Assuming someone is just going to sit on classic when they become bored with it because they refuse to open up TBC is just silly, they are just going to quit.
So what? I mean, you say cherry picking like it’s a bad thing. Is there something wrong with trying to take the best of both approaches and combine them in a way that will result in an experience that’s more positive for everyone? If there’s something you don’t like (and you want to continue the discussion), try suggesting things that build or change slightly to yield a more agreeable result. Shore up the weaknesses, not exploit them to shut down what could be a positive discussion?
Maybe, people in WoW do like their loot. I suggested side grades (similar to the majority of Dire Maul loot) as a means of mitigating the complaint of people not wanting to do content that’s not purely classic. It is worth mentioning that I think a lot of people would still do this content. Remember, some people will do it just for something new to do. Others will do it because they don’t have all their BiS from the existing dungeons, so having more options that will get them the same type of gear might actually be preferable.
For now… and frankly, that’s fine. But this museum piece will die off if it’s not extended. For some, that’s TBC. For others, it’s not. Classic can be extended if Blizzard wants it to be, and if they want to continue to have people play a game they invested time in creating. Remember, Classic+ is merely a discussion about what could be, as an alternative to TBC, which brings significantly more changes than just new content (ie, flying mounts).
For myself, I really can’t see Blizzard letting it die out, or maintaining something that only a small portion of the player base actually use. They may well do it anyway, but I just don’t see it. WoW Classic needs a future… no matter how many times you, or anybody else, says it must remain completely unchanged. That need for a future is a ways off… at least a year. It’s not like this is a pressing concern, it’s just a hypothetical discussion. So set aside the regurgitated rhetoric simply because you don’t happen to agree with the ideas being presented. There is absolutely no benefit in joining a discussion simply to try to shut it down.
Fracturing the player base definitely has an impact. Look at what happened to the battlefield games when certain content was locked behind a premium pass. A lot of that content just didn’t get played because the people who didn’t buy it couldn’t access it, keeping server populations low on the premium content. As a result, the people who did pay for that content couldn’t find a server to play on and ultimately stopped paying for premium content. Ultimately, EA realized this and changed their approach. Now, what was premium is used for alternative things.
So a sub really isn’t a sub. Blizzard does have to be aware of the impact splitting their player base up into multiple games will have. Retail vs. classic had an impact already, but is splitting again worth while? Consider a raiding guild of 40 players on a low pop server. If TBC comes out and half of those players are left for TBC but the other half wanted to stay, because of the low pop server they will have trouble rebuilding their raid roster. Server transfers will be needed to allow them to go to another realm in order to join a new guild. Blizzard doesn’t respond very quickly with server transfers in those cases, so you also have to consider folks who will stick it out and wait for them, vs. folks who will outright quit because they can’t be bothered anymore. This results in lost subs.
I’m not saying they’d be wrong to open up TBC and that it will ruin everything, I’m just saying it warrants a certain amount of care.