All of which need to be collected by players and used by players.
Logic isn’t your strong suit.
Go troll elsewhere.
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Because they’re parroting other people and have never actually played a game that’s p2w
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Oh there’s no doubt about lost ark being P2W. You can skip to the top gear if you’ve got the cash. I will personally never understand why that’s fun though. Playing the game is the fun part. When my character is complete is when I typically get bored and roll something new.
Lol nope, go white knight somewhere.
Any game turns pay to win once it sells in game currency…
Live with it, but stop denying it.
While this is true, every single thing on that list can be reasonably obtained by any player without paying any of that. So the “winning” is not exclusive to people willing to pay, which I think matters quite a bit in this whole argument of p2w or not.
Could say the same thing for lost ark though. You can technically, reasonably, gain everything in the game over 6-10 months. Alternatively, you can pay up and get it all in a single day. if you got enough money you can do this in wow. Pay for full funnels in mythic raid and a full clear. Grats you wonned.
I just have always hated P2W. Gaming is where you go to level the real life playing field of haves vs have nots. Your real life money holds no value here. You’re on a level playing field. Any form of payment from real life sources to get ahead of the competition just shatters that level playing field and allows people with enormous amounts of disposable income unfair advantages.
I don’t want real life inequalities affecting the games I play. This is where you come to go peer to peer and how well off you are in real life holds no weight. That line is increasingly vanishing. Sad time for gaming tbh.
Yeah, fair points. I suppose I would feel differently if gear was literally purchased directly from the cash shop and that gear could not be obtained in game.
I’ve found that during gameplay, the “winning” (for me at least) comes through the demonstration of one’s role and performance. I’ve seen people in all 252s and all +15s (no lower keys, so they very likely bought em all) who barely could pull 3k dps in like a +10.
They’re hardly “winning” in my books given how utterly garbage their performance is. But hey, I suppose we all measure our…“winning” in different ways.
I agree, win condition is personal. For some, it’s gear. For others it’s something simpler, like just getting that super rare cool mount or transmog. For others it’s the score or achievements over their peers. Some people find victories in just getting to hang out with friends or people.
I honestly am not anti-boost. I am anti-buy-gold-with-tokens-then-boost. When real life finances interfere and how well easy you have it in game and put you above your peers that actually bugs me. Even simply buying tokens to circumvent buying mats for consumables is huge. You’ve actually paid for an advantage that someone less financially well off might not be able to do. You can effectively skip playing huge portions of the game that make gold now. Your time in game can now be spent grinding dungeons or raids.
Meanwhile person who is less well off has to use their free time to grind those materials or gold to buy them. It just skewers fair play and distorts the level playing field in so many ways that aren’t on the surface. Both player A and B could be equally skilled; but player A gets to grind far more dungeons over player B because player B has to grind for things outside of running dungeons. It’s a form of winning since practice and hours available to play are tangible resources.
Yeah it’s part of the problem, the measure of a “win” is not something that is really up for debate. We can’t rearrange the definition as to make it seems like the Bengals won the Superbowl instead of the Rams. That’s not how it works.
I they take pleasure in the game accomplishing whatever they do, good for them but we don’t have to pretend that represent any kind of objective “win” from the textbook definition.
Don’t sit on your high horse and judge other games for being pay to win, when WoW is hardly any better
I mean if you don’t pay anything at all in WoW, you can’t even get past level 20
you guys dont know what paid to win in until you actually play a korean mmo.
I don’t see how people can’t see wow isn’t p2w. It’s absolutely 100% p2w. You pay $20 to generate gold ingame to get carried and “win” something most have to grind and work hard for like mythic mount, AOTC mount, +15 mount, gladiator mount, etc.
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Oh yeah, WoW totally is pay to win!
All those cool store mounts increase my DPS by 500%!
I can use the token to get gold, which let’s me buy crafted gear that is slightly (or majorly) underwhelming compared to raiding gear!
If that’s winning then I wanna be a loser.
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I did progression through Mythic like I do every tier. I didn’t “win” because I have the Mythic Sylvanas mount, I “won” because I have good friends that I enjoyed doing the raid with, and have improved over time as a player to the point where I can get the Mythic Sylvanas mount. On my own merits.
Does it bother me if somebody buys a mount? No. Everyone who can do the content relying on their own skills can spot those people a mile away and just kind of shake their heads softly.
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You don’t get how tokens work, like at all. It doesn’t generate gold in game. Someone else has to earn that gold and then buy said token. Buying a token does not create “new” gold. It’s easy to see how you also don’t understand what P2W means.
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Also unless you need to be bleeding edge run for first place…you don’t need to spend money in lost ark.
I ahve not even used over half my founders pack goodies yet.
If a nice regular casual, with some ARPG skills (ie don’t need wasd (seems to be a bigger rant there…arpg doesn’t do wasd, its its thing), you know how kiting works if ranged) you can play the game fine.
Pet upgrade cost money, yes. Base pet works fine for me.
Some skins give abilities. So…buy the one you want. jsut the one. Devs did a good game there. give them a few bucks. Why I hate freeloader rants. Not saying give them $500 dollars. give them $30 or whatever some base items will be in store. Devs like to put food on the table too.
game companies have bills to pay. Why I got the founders. Use what it has, then play for free after. I helped pay their electric bill to get the game supported. yay me…
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