We should all be living in caves too, it’s not fare to the Neanderthal’s that we have all these conveniences.
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You got me! Thinking about turning on the stream right now and watching some content get created after I create some content in the bathroom!
If it’s in at launch then it needs to be just a group-forming tool only. No extra rewards. Like BG queue, forms a team for you and sends you to the BG, but doesn’t give you extra BG marks upon finishing.
[ETA: rest of this post is not replying to you, Redhead]
If BG queues worked like RDF it would be like if you queued up at a battlemaster, you got the 3 BG marks for winning, but if you ran to the BG itself and zoned in, you’d get no BG marks for winning.
Wouldn’t it be silly to say “but you can still find people to run to the BG with you!” “If you don’t like to queue up at the Battlemaster, you don’t have to use the Battlemaster!” I mean yeah technically nothing is stopping me and 4 friends from
flying to Ashenvale to do WSG, but practically speaking, at that point, obviously hardly anyone will be manually running to the BGs. They would all be queuing up at the Battlemaster.
That I believe is Zipzo’s point with this thread.
If you dont like Zipzo’s take then dont read it.
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I would much rather have it like this than what wotlkrdf was.
The things I hate about wotlkrdf is 2 things
- Cross realm
- It’s more efficient to use it than to not in a way that actively encourages skipping dungeon content/bosses just to get to the last boss, kill it and get the bonus loot.
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You likely wouldn’t hear a peep out of me even if they had RDF in the game exactly as it was, top to bottom.
However, Blizz made a move here, and I think it was potentially a good one, so I’m put in a position to explain why I think it is.
It was Blizzard’s decision though. They initiated this conversation because they made a choice. It’s up to us to validate or reject that choice.
I want to start by saying I am Pro RDF. Where part of me wants to agree with the if you don’t like it don’t use segment I understand that there are certain points to it that don’t hold up. So I want to clarify a few things, that seem to get overlooked alot. On the premise that Blizzard puts this back into the game, like myself and many others are hoping:
You will still be able to create groups in LFG. In fact I recommend creating groups from LFG, and once you have the majority of your group formed (Or even full group), and you don’t have that last one or two spots filled, then queue into RDF. You can have a majority group of your choosing, and still not have to wait for hours to find the rest.
Looking for group channel will not die with the introduction of RDF. There will always be people who want to do walk in Heroics, where they form the group manually and walk into the heroic. At the beginning of the expansion, when no one is geared enough to queue, and later as guilds are trying to help a guildy gear up an alt for the main swapping. You will also find some people who won’t want to take a chance on being in a group with some one not on their server, and will build full groups before queing to begin with. You also have to remember, wrath is the first, truly alt friendly expansion, so a lot of people will be leveling and gearing alts through out the expansion, so you will always have people who can’t queue into RDF, and therefore will always have people looking to do walk ins. As we get additional instances, there are pieces of loot in them, that are comparable, and even better than raid items, so you will have people creating stacked groups to optimize their chances at getting that piece of loot as well.
There are perks to queing in solo, and there are perks to queing in with a group of friends. Solo, you get a damage buff, so you do more dps, when you queue with friends, you don’t get the damage buff, but you have a group that you know is competant and will smoothly/succesfully clear the instance the way you want. You also generally have faster queue times when queing as a group.
If blizzard does not implement RDF, we will still have walk in heroics, and people will do them. However, once people are into raid content/raid gear, the amount of people who will be running dungeons, will fall off, just like they did in TBC. Leaving us in the same problem we have now, of LFG, and hours looking for groups, tanks/healers charging you to run the dungeons or not running them. Because at the end of the day, once you are raid geared, there isn’t a lot of point in running the dungeons, outside of the once a day heroic dungeon quest. Pre RDF, was a quest you picked up in dal, post RDF, was just your first random heroic of the day.
At the end of the day, if we get RDF, I will be playing mostly tank or healer. I will be in Dal, and will spam LFG for 2-5 minutes stating that I am either a tank or a healer, getting ready to queue, and will be attempting to bring a standard dungeon group with me. But after 2-5 minutes, I will be queing into the dungeon finder. Will rinse and repeat pretty much any time I am not either raiding or at work. If RDF is not implemented, I will be standing in Dalaran, spamming LFG for however long it takes, that I am a tank or healer looking for a group for whatever the daily is, then I will likely log out for the day.
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Yeah, same. I’ve used words like “it needs to be” and “non-negotiable” when talking about tweaks I’d like to see, but what I mean is that the things I use those words on, are the sub-issues within this particular issue that I feel most strongly about.
Overarchingly, whether I play or don’t play WOTLKC it’s not going to be due to RDF or lack thereof.
Same. It doesn’t impact my inclination to play WOTLKC whatsoever, but since Blizzard opened that can of worms completely of their own will, all I can offer is what my original opinion on RDF always was, back when it was implemented and any inherent catch-alls that got tied to that opinion as the life of the game went on.
A feature that existed for patch 3.3.5, which is the version we are getting.
Uh, so ICC will be open when WOTLKC launches?
This.
Sure. If by that you mean something that looks and feels like the original but without xrealm, then I think that could work.
We agree here - “if you don’t like it, don’t use it” is a bogus argument. If that’s your only point then we actually do agree.
What I meant was - it wouldn’t surprise me if Blizzard about turns on the issue. I don’t think they’re rock solid behind it.
My position is that it is a miscalculation for Blizzard to significantly change the feature as I don’t think the market that is keen on a WoTLKC are the same people as the Market for TBCC and VanillaC, many of whom may not even yet be playing Classic.
The prudent path for them is to deliver WoTLKC by and large as it was. Changing a feature a bit is one thing but omitting it is a bridge too far.
I’m not personally invested in the actual feature though. But it is an omission that runs counter the design intentions of this expansion, which was expressly to add more accessibility to content.
People are so desperate to vindicate RDF because they got some kind of mental complex that’s the result of retail domestication.
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Yeah I dont think its that deep.
All of classic has had phases released in it.
Even guild banks was not in tbcc launch.
Rdf should not be in at wotlkc launch.
So you believe that this decision could negatively impact the financial performance of WOTLKC?
I’m not really concerned about that, even if Blizzard likely is.
Shouldn’t the only concern to you be that you can enjoy the expansion? If WOTLKC “dies” due to omitting RDF, then yeah, enjoying it is off the table and not having RDF was a bad idea.
However, if not having RDF creates no noticeable negative impact to the success of WOTLKC, what remaining purpose is there to mourne its loss unless you are just plainly fond of the feature?
Weren’t you one of those that referred to Wrath as retail garbage?
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First of all they’re too late. Second, there’s nothing to save. Damage is done. There’s no going back. One glance at these forums should tell you that. Lastly, its kind of hypocritical to sell boosts and then say one of your big concerns is socialization.
Best move is to just stick to authenticity, use some changes to solve problems and release RDF in all its “glory” with the ICC patch.
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Assuming I was, was there a point to asking?
Ive said Wrath isnt as good as Vanilla or TBC. Ive never referred to it as retail garbage. But if anyone was going to pick an expac where it all started to trend in the wrong direction, Wrath would be it.
Lets do a little experiment, you create a toon on Old Blanchy, doesnt matter horde or alliance and you tell me how that beautiful natural dungeon forming goes for you. Give it a week of attempts and let us know your progress report