can we get back to the real question?
can we please unlock all class/race combos?
Because culturally, not all races are going to be all things. We already have some silly combinations as it is. The restrictions are one of the few things that still give WoW some RPG flavor.
but as you’ve already admitted, we already have really silly combinations
there isn’t anything to protect anymore, they won’t add combinations that are supported by lore from the warcraft RTS games so just add them all and be done with it
Some people ask why RP in WoW became only ERP and idiotic “slow walking events”.
Well, after a whole arc was written and elaborated (mostly ripped off from Celtic lore, Hindu Epics and D&D, but worked on nonetheless) as to why Night Elves would never get to Arcane. In a “simple coffee meeting” BAM, we have night elven mages.
After a deep and interesting lore as to why Hunters are not “people who hunt”, but a being that has a deep connection to nature and life, to the point they can almost talk to animals, and get nature to hide them, tell them through signs what has happened in a place, or give them means and power, BAM, everyone mostly can be hunter.
Then they actually CHANGED THEIR MINDS from originally restricting monk class, because lets face it, players are too “woke” with that freedom and choice crap to understand life does not offer those, you are tricked into believing it does. So they saw no point in making an actually interesting lore for monks, and instead it is just something you teach someone and BAM, you are a monk.
It is surprising that this new trend of inverting roles and actually copying final fantasy XIV, wow did not freed anyone to be any and all classes they want. And I wager the only reason they dont is because it requires too much work.
Actually more a reference to worlds in which dwarven beards are not a masculine thing. Like how in most species of deer antlers are male only, reindeer all have antlers male and female.
How exactly is “woke” required to feel that a basically purely martial class based upon physical training does not make sense for all races?
To provide an actual answer to this side of things
They’d need to develop fresh models for all paladin mounts, shammy totems, and the more time consuming one, druid forms. That’s what’ll ultimately limit who gets what
Eh, it’d still be something that’d get added as an expansion feature, so that doesn’t seem like such a huge task in that context. It’d be a lot for a .x patch, but for an X.0 patch it seems like a reasonable amount to expect.
They can easily stagger that stuff out like they do already. Like the new lightforged paladin mount.
I’m so ready for Panda Druids, Nightborne Druids, Highmountain Warlocks(Still mad Blizzard missed this one with the blood totem tribe since there are still Highmountain blood totem in Highmountain!), and Pally Goblins.
It was slightly more then that. It was a Catacylsm that forced EVERYONE to rethink how to do things. Also, the night elves had literally joined a faction where EVERY RACE had learned arcane magic. Heck, just check, everyone can be a mage in the Alliance, even our allied races where as the Horde is still a faction that has the taurens who cant be mages.
This was never a thing, even in Vanilla WoW, or did you forget Nessingwary and his associates were a thing?
What are you even talking about? the monk class is a class that would literally fit anyone. The fact is, the pandarens would have gladly taught anyone who would listen and WoW is probably better off having everyone be able to be a monk. There is no cultural reason to not have it.
The only reason they don’t do this is because I suspect they actually want new class/race combo to be an important lore event/actually an exciting addition. Also, the devs themselves have said that any class/race combo is possible.
Okay. So let’s not misunderstand one another here. The potential for what amounts to using whatever title you wish for whichever gender your toon is, is good? And it is. More player freedom, more goodness. But if you don’t like it (then don’t use it), somehow you’re a terrible anti-LGBT bigot. Okay. Got it. And yes, I am sincerely for this option despite that it does not affect me in the slightest.
But not unlocking all classes for all races becaue “the lore” (which has been trash since Vanilla, tbh) does not make you racist? How does that work? You either believe in racial equality and accessibilty or you do not? Now, years ago, you could’ve argued “escapism” and you’d be right to do so. But Blizzard has shown in previous expansions, to be open to things like Gnome Priests and Hunters. Why not Tauren Demon Hunters? Why not Dwarves who are not Scottish?
The point is this: if this pronoun thing is real and it makes peeps happy by providing more options of self-expression, however few people may use it, excellent. The more options, the better! Again, it’s purely about opening options for enjoying the game for a more modern sensibility while not “forcing it” on more old school players.
But the one must ask why bring in “the lore” as a counter to unlocking all classes for all races when Blizzard has demonstrably not given on tin hoot about the lore since Cataclysm? More player options on how to self-express in game, the better!
More self-expression for all, lore be damned, because Blizzard clearly doesn’t give a damn about the lore!
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Oh, for sure
But that’s the official reason we don’t have everything. The art stuff
Honestly I wouldn’t mind generic models for some of that stuff and they can gradual add stuff. Like adding generic druid forms would be nice. Some of the new forms for travel form are just regular creatures. All shamans used to use the same tauren totems on horde.
Left-extremist always think they have a free pass in judging everyone because it’s generally accepted by society. These double standards have always existed under every umbrella people wish to defend.
People confuse lore with race and fantasy tropes. The classical tropes are so popular because they have to been proven to work. Just because it is possible for Blizzard to give Tauren the Demon Hunter class it doesn’t mean it fits them. This is where RL politics have no place in a game. We may evolve as a society but in game-terms it would mean sacrificing what made the races special. If everyone could do anything, then what’s the point in having races at all? It’s no real diversity, it’s a mindless all-can-do buffet. Why playing a Gnome when a Blood Elf can do everything they can? In the end, it will be just about the looks and this is too bland.
The class/race limitations make sense as much as to broaden them. Giving all races everything is not the answer. In fact, it will worsen the overall situation.
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And yet much of Warcraft’s bigger successes came from subverting tropes. They were towards the leading edge of the orcs don’t need to be mindless brutes thing. While it can be safe to follow narrative trends, a well done breaking of the trope can breathe new life into it. It is a risk as you can screw it up, but following the pack can also lead you to being ignored among the other similar options.
Really gonna go with that, huh?
Ah, where the positions get flipped.
Because despite the absolute nonsense of the claim that RL politics has anything to do with this, there are interesting character hooks that can come in from wider availability of race and class combinations. A Draenei Warlock is not going to be a standard Draenei, they may be an exile that finds a home within the warlocks of the Alliance after being cast out by their people. Or alternatively they could be a new take on the class, an individual strong in the light who through some magic or artifacts can use their enemy as a weapon against itself, dominating demons to fight others of their kind or other enemies. No pact or bargain with the devil, but a leashing of it to fight their own kind.
You play a gnome because you want the gnome aesthetic and story. You can tie the feel of the character to the feel of the class. A Tauren might take up the wings of a demon hunter in the midst of legion as a desperate attempt to continue protecting their people, with say an elf DH willing to try to train them, or thinking it’d be funny to watch helping them with the transformation.
All our characters are well outside the normal bounds of the societies that birth them, why is it such a big step for them to train to do something their people don’t normally do?
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This is no risk, it’s called character development.
It’s not a nonsense. You oversee the fatal flaw which comes with this point of view, namely the death of fantasy diversity.
This is why we have Allied Races in the game. Imagine how pointless it would have been for the Lightforged Draenei or Mag’har Orcs to be made if they could just become the opposite they stand for. No, opening up all classes to every race will not solve the political problem people crave in RL for. WoW is a game, let it stay a game. If you really need your demonic Draenei or Tauren fix, then request the Eredar and Feltotem tribe to be playable.
Weren’t you the poster in this topic who pointed out that Exile Reach shoves the cultural tribes and backstories away? Can’t you really see the double standards here? People want “progression” while removing what made the races unique. Making a “clean slate” character isn’t the answer, it only makes it more dull and boring.
You want something truly “stunning, brave, open minded, woke and unique”? Let’s start with cross-breeding between likely impossible races and have them off-springs. This is way more progressive than simply opening up some classes. For all the mistakes the developers and especially Danuser and his writing team did, they at least understood that giving every race every class isn’t the solution everyone hopes for.
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The only death of fantasy diversity I can see comes from enforcing use of the classic tropes.
They are pointless as barely distinct versions that should have been cosmetic options for the core. Our character’s stories are our own, we have the power to write them as we see fit. They are not canon in any way as there’s no way to make that workable, so we have the freedom to fill in the story as we see fit.
If a class is what makes a race unique, that is pretty sad. Especially when our characters are unique. Where would many large fantasy tales be without the character who bucks the trends? What if Bilbo or Frodo stayed in the Shire like most hobbits would? What if Drizzt Do’Urden was a standard evil Drow in the Underdark? They stand out more for going against the standard of their race. And yet that does not erase them being part of that race.
A clash with the society of your people is a large thing for a character, it can bring new life to the usual story. How would a gnome druid relate to other gnomes? What perspective would a gnome see druidic practices through and how would that influence it? Those are interesting points to address with a character, and can lead to good things in fiction, be it a book or a backstory of an mmo character.
After reading this I lost interest in discussing this topic with you. Not progressive enough.
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Yes, I know, you have no argument so therefore I’m a political boogeyman.
Since dear god old forgotten realms books are so left wing. Or the Hobbit.
Going to comment specifically on this because I am a die-hard fan of the Gnomes. And you’re absolutely correct. Gnomes are infinitely malleable in personality.
My hunter? He’s a very good boy Gnome who lives in his Nelfy’s pocket, loves otter videos, making tasty bear sandwiches out of those naughty bears who lie and say they’re not bears (Maldurion is particularly notorious in this regard), he likes giving his Horde buddies lots of hugs with bullets and kitties, and he likes snuggling in his Nelfy’s lap with his favorite blankie; he’s my favorite character personality-wise despite the fact he’s not exactly the brightest candle in the gascan.
My warrior, another Gnome, is quite fearsome and terrifying and has the ridiculous name of Huggywuggles to back it up…except when he gets over excited and bites off more than he can chew.
Elmer, my Gnome DK is proudly evil! He thinks bear sandwiches are gross, thinks bunnies are better than otters, and does “totally evil stuff” like eat cookies without milk and taking over the Maw so he can have totally evil dance parties. In fact, he is so evil, he trolled Athas right to his face by riding Invincible in the DK starting zone and wants to name his trusty Ghoul buddy, Varian and raise him in front of Anduin just to make him cry. Again, not too smart.
So, why not a Gnome Demon Hunter who, feeling rejected by the Alliance’s attitudes towards Gnomes, wants to be able to reject the traditional norms and values and be a bit more vicious and independent like his personal hero, Illidan?
Or a Gnome Paladin who, through the miracle of technology (aka dumb luck) manages to somehow figure out to weild the power of the Light as a Paladin? And of course, the Goblins would very quickly “appropiate” said tech, tweak it in their own Gobliny manner and boom! Goblin Paladins!
And you can flip the script on any race/class combo without really digging too deeply. And, as I’ve said, the more options players are given to express themselves in game, the more likely you’re able to retain (and possibly re-gain) more and more players.
At it’s core, any MMORPG has an element of RP for every player regardless of deep you fall into the RP rabbithole. Even the most “hardcore of l337 bleeding edge raider” takes pride in concocting their transmog so that it looks as awesome as it can.
So yeah. Unlock all class/race restrictions for those that want them and for those that disagree, that’s cool. Just stick with the traditional class/race roles as you prefer.
But I will guarantee one thing: getting run down by a fearsome and terrifying Gnome Arms Warrior with an over-inflated and entirely undeserved ego wearing nothing but skimpy bloodscale leggings, and you will fall out of your chair either in embarrassment and/or incredulous laughter…hopefully both.
Same goes for a gaggle of Gnome Demon Hunters descending en masse from the sky to the hilariously haunting strains of Wagner’s Flight of the Valkyrie as renditioned by a toddler with their first kazoo!
#MorePlayerChoiceMorePlayers
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