It seems I’m not the only one who realizes that war mode is not the same.
It seems like the only people who are saying war mode is the same thing, are people who dislike pvp.
Of course those people are going to say it’s the same thing.
For some of us, it is not that we dislike PvP in and of itself, but our experiences have left a sour taste in our mouths due to things that happen on PvP servedrs, that while technically PvP, are also the kinds of behaviors that some don’t want to deal with.
I started on a PvP server, and I was on them more often then not, but I ran under a modis operendi of kill and go for PvP. I never intentionally/obviously camped except against campers/
The way I see it, the main difference between PvP servers and WM is WM provides more options to get away from or deal with campers. Not trying to throw shade on you Buch or any like you, but with that in mind, the assumption of any that want PvP servers is they want to camp people till they log or quit the game, which is actually what lead to the death of PvP servers in the first place.
And some of the best PvE guilds were, in fact, on PvE realms. And there are ‘PvP guilds’ on PvP servers that are utter trash at the PvP aspect of the game. Just because a guild is on a server of a type doesn’t mean squat, you’re still going to have to do research to make sure you get a good guild and that your fellow players are quality players. Which, again, is no different from War Mode. If you join a ‘PvP guild’ and turn War Mode off without the guild’s OK, that guild should boot you for it since you’re unwilling to partake in its core activity, just like a PvE guild would boot you if you couldn’t make room for raids/Mythic/other PvE activities in your schedule to the guild’s satisfaction.
The only, and I mean only difference between War Mode and a PvP server is the inability leave unwated PvP. If you turn War Mode on and leave War Mode on, you are on a PvP server, full stop. Every rule is exactly identical aside from ‘once you’re done, hit up an inn and you can turn off War Mode’. Believe me; ganks are just as obnoxious in War Mode as they were on PvP servers.
‘War Mode has groups of people who signed up for pvp all over the place and the end zones are packed with players if you like wpvp. Just because “you folllowed your friends” doesn’t mean you also don’t sign up for pvp if you were on Tich or ED.’
The only difference is that supposedly pro-PvP players aren’t keeping War Mode on. If they want a community, they have to put in the work to build it. Stay in War Mode. Entice other players to click that button and commit to it. If you’re a guild looking to focus on PvP, require that War Mode be active for continued Guild membership, or at the very least inquire why your supposedly ‘PvP-focused’ member turned off their flag.
The question you need to be asking yourself is ‘why aren’t pro-PvP players staying in the PvP setting?’ Relying on server rules to trap unsuspecting players’ characters isn’t building a community, it’s holding player progress hostage.
War Mode On is a PvP server as long as you don’t turn it off. So don’t turn it off. If War Mode Off is ‘where all the players are’, well tough luck; you chose to live that WPvP life. However, lucky you, you’re not trapped on that ‘dead server’, you can swap to a more involved PvE environment any time you like at no cost to you or your character! That’s not something a PvP server allows! Even better, you can join back up with that PvP server, with no progress lost, once the mood strikes you again!
Again, if you’re so convinced that ‘there’s surely a massive community of PvPers just waiting for the blood to start flowing in Retail’, then you need to ask yourself why there hasn’t been any concerted effort to organize War Mode guilds and WPvP as a whole. Why are ‘die-hard PvPers’ turning off the flag or just running back to Classic? Why is War Mode so barren if so many players are chomping at the bit to fight?
Yes, if there were MG and Wyrmrest players were interested in open WPvP and turned on War Mode, it would be a good thing for ED War Moders because they’d have more bodies on the field. There’d be the potential for even bigger fights, which is what the WPvP experience is all about, no? There’d be more danger around every corner, a core facet of WPvP’s ‘thrill’, yes? More allies to call on, more enemies to fight. So, yes, from a PvP standpoint, ED getting mashed into Wyrmrest and MG is a good thing because PvP needs participation. A fight takes at least two people.
That said, I never said cross-realm was a good thing for server identity, I said cross-realm would be good for War Mode because it allows for the potential of an even bigger pool of players than even the largest PvP server could host. Cross-realm is disastrous for server identity, but it’s either that or Blizzard finally faces reality and starts hard-merging servers.
Cross-Realm is not a War Mode issue, it’s its own problem. Sharding is not a War Mode issue, it’s its own problem. War Mode is strictly a ‘WPvP On/Off’ setting which, when on, is no different from a PvP server.
If it’s that hard to build a community of PvPers in this game, well, you can blame the legacy of PvP servers and unregulated gankfests, unanswered calls for help, sunk cost fallacies trapping players and characters on servers for wanting to play with friends, and an incredible toxicity that was encouraged by the devs themselves. Back in Vanilla, it wasn’t easy to start fresh, especially on new servers with no prior characters/friends. It was also, for a long while, impossible to play both sides on a singular server. These are memories that endure quite well in the playerbase’s minds, and we even got a reminder of it with the repeat of the Scourge Invasion.
You’re asking for something you already have. So flag up and start fighting already.
Then be the change you want to see. Don’t leave War Mode. Work with your friends, guilds, the ‘PvP community’ as a whole to make War Mode work. PvP only works if people participate in it. If you’re ‘PvP-minded’, why aren’t you flagged? If you’re dedicated to WPvP, why aren’t you flagged? If you want a ‘dangerous’ leveling experience or ‘danger around every corner’, why aren’t you flagged?
If War Mode is empty, it’s because people just like you aren’t flagging. If you can’t convince this ‘PvP community’ to come together for big events or even just to stay flagged so those events can potentially happen, then you might not actually have a ‘PvP community’. Flag up, stay flagged, and do the work to convince others to do the same.
Cross-Realm and Sharding are genuine problems, but they are not related to War Mode, they are entirely separate. Cross-Realm is Blizzard refusing to face reality, and Sharding is Blizzard’s lack of confidence in its own backend. Let’s nevermind phasing which will become a huge thing going forward in Cata since that’s when the system really started to take off, so what fun it’ll be to be chasing someone down and then they vanish because their zone’s in a different era than yours!
Or is that a War Mode problem too?
Except they ran the experiment already, and it failed, which lead to War Mode. Point at ED all you like, but they were the outlier.
They’ve reimplemented PvP servers in Classic with new tech to force faction balance. These severs are popular.
That’s proof of modern demand for the concept, and effort Blizzard has put in to improve on the original concept.
Given that - and the success of realms like Emerald Dream - a limited experiment of a PvP realm in retail certainly doesn’t seem far fetched 
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100% agree. Thank you
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Again, those servers are popular because of their novelty. They’re new, shiny, and different. Popularity over years of play however is extremely unproven. Hell, interest SoD is fading for people and it’s only been months. They’re even offering free transfers off because people are finding out that PvP servers are, in fact, rather restrictive.
We tried PvP servers, for years. For every ED, we’d have dozens of TFCs. Again, ED is the outlier.
Remember, War Mode is a relatively recent development. I think it was BFA when it arrived, which is a scant few expansions ago. We had plenty of data on PvP servers by that point. The data was pointing at a mass unhappiness with feeling ‘trapped’ in one playstyle or the other. Y’know, the thing I’ve been hammering this entire thread.
Per Blizzard’s words:
“With War Mode, we wanted to solve the problem of some players feeling “locked” into one play style or another by their realm choice. They might have picked a PvE realm purely because their friends were there, even though they were interested in open world PvP. Conversely, they could have chosen a PvP realm to start, but later decided it wasn’t for them anymore.”
https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/21901729/battle-for-azeroth-preview-war-mode-pvp-talents-and-moreWar Mode addresses the core issue with PvP servers, and when it’s on, it’s indistinguishable from a PvP server with one small caveat; you can opt-out or opt-in without losing character progress or switching servers. If you want a grueling WPvP experience, leave War Mode on and you’d never know it wasn’t a PvP server. Again, I got ganked and trashed throughout BFA, SL, and DF (Wingrest Embassy and Ruby Lifeshrine were particular nightmares), so the action’s there. Flag up and get busy.
The cycle is already beginning to repeat in SoD and Classic. People are complaining, bailing, and the servers are losing population.
This is a telling statement here. Bypass it how, and why?
With a pvp server of some kind
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War mode doesn’t have the same feel as PVP servers did. It’s just full of hyper aggro zergs or random people trying to avoid pvp and do rep stuff or rares.
I would transfer to a true pvp server
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We can hope for one day
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You described the population of PvP servers. Those looking for PvP and those who aren’t. That was Sargeras in legion, it was Sargeras War Mode in BfA too.
It’s not war mode though. War mode and pvp servers are not the same thing.
Many world pvp players don’t like war mode.
I don’t like war mode either. Wish it didn’t exist in the first place.
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They are the same except for cross-realm content and opt-in/out in capitals. And War Mode is highly encouraged with quests, currencies, gathering mats and experience/gold boosts, which actually brings people into the mode, rather than just stagnating.
War mode is not the same as a pvp server, no
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Agreed. It’s a pve server basically
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Opt into the pvp version, et voila, pvp server!
You have to hang out by the world quests to get victims–er customers.
Chaos bolt is just an inverse healing spell!
I’ll be in cata until retail gets a pvp server anyways.
1 big PvP server would be epic