I don’t have time to check this thread every minute of the day. Fine I’ll give an example, a few weeks ago we got a group of 20 together for a goldshire/stormwind raid. We walked in to it like it was nothing. Maybe 4-5 alliance in goldshire and I didn’t see a single one in stormwind. Absolutely 0 resistance and fun because of how war mode works in their phasing/shard or whatever it works as. It was a complete waste of time. When I played on pvp servers, this wasn’t the case. It was actually a fun battle and usually a loss, but I didn’t mind it because it was fun to try. Now you can just march right in like it’s nothing. Just one example
A capital raid? Those are old hat nowadays. On TFC capital raids usually went unanswered. ‘Orgrimmar is under attack!’ ‘Oh, good, that means Barrens probably isn’t, I get to level today!’
My prospective as a wpvp player that dedicated thousands of hours from TBC - WoD I can provide some personal data or feedback from myself and my guild I ran.
Wpvp use to organically exist constantly due to “PVP SERVER” so you formed Rivalries that could be ever lasting as long as they’re subbed to the game and would see these players on a general bases so it added a fiery vengeance or means of fighting them, from helping your guild mates to protecting world defense alerts like “Darkshire, lake shire, Honor Hold is under attack alerts” It would give you a rhyme or reason to leave a capital city or stop what you was doing to go out and help people or player or straight up something to do for end game content once you get tired of queueing the same battlegrounds over and over. Wpvp is great due to changing up the scenery and being much less predictable.
I use to spend hours of my day on stand by just waiting for something to happen be it helping a guild mate requesting for help which Is why I loved guilds back in the day since it felt more meaningful for a “Community” aspect. (This is seriously a thing and I have 2 friends I still talk to from Wotlk and even play other games with to this day) A friendship that never would have existed without wpvp. Take that as you will but for me it’s valuable. Also there was days when things are quiet so we would go out to cross roads or thrallmar to stir up problem and IT ALWAYS would cause horde to come out to fight us and eventually building up numbers to counter us to kick us out of their settlements.
I use to love logging into wow just to see a solo - trio fighting at rebel camp or other contested area’s since again it’s not always predictable what you would be getting into and it felt good to show presence in the name of FACTION PRIDE.
Now let’s head into the future changes that changed everything and even killed my guild. It started with Legion. Legion broke World Defense which resulted in ALL the things my guild was passionate about was gone. We tried to force it by going to big capital cities but that’s all it was after that. Shortly after we’re told they was removing pvp servers and replacing it with “Warmode” Come BFA. This was a very bad system for the fact World defense alerts was ruined, pvp servers gutted and warmode was a phasing mess. The only way you find “Pvp” now is in 1 area where people are zurg zug zug fest graveyard camping fighting and it’s only about a reward or daily. It use to be only about the FUN. No rewards attached. Which is a massive issue wow created for itself.
I use to no life wow, now I have little reason to play now other than a battleground. Azeroth and the world in general was killed for me as all risk or gratification of helping guild mates vanished. Everything we fought for and did passionately was taken away. Not only did a handful of my friends vanish hardly any of us enjoy logging in as much. Myself included. I log in maybe 3 - 4 times a month now at best to fly around on my dragon and queue for a bg. Every time I go to check on wpvp it’s either impossible to find or only at the “Hot spot” of the current patch. That’s boring to me.
I fully support pvp only server with the suggestion of doing it like Season of Discovery for balancing it. Give us players that supported world of warcraft for years to have our slice of the pie again.
Warmode should have only existed on Rp and Normal servers while Pvp and Rp-pvp kept it’s integrity. Also blizzard should have did better at managing ratios rather than capitalizing off server transfers.
I don’t have much faith in blizzard but I just wanted to add my 2 cents. o/
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Good thing I am not asking you too, and to just give me an example of something from your own brain.
So, Valdrakken is the current city hub. PVP server or not older cities and zones are gonna be much less populated. Oh and sharding is a thing thats probably the culprit here, not WM. (sharding is obnoxious 100% agree.)
Sharding issue, not a WM issue. Would be there on a PVP realm causing issues too.
none of this is specific to warmode, these are all gripes that can be traced directly to sharding. The more you post on this the more you come off as anti sharding which is fine, it would cause issues on a PVP realm as well.
What a lot of this tells me is either your timing is wrong, the choice of city raid was bad, or those people you wave around as wanting PVP aren’t using the current tool to do so, or are using it in different areas than you would like such as current content zones.
So you gave me an example of something you can do both with WM on and on a PVP server, which wasn’t my question at all. I understand it isn’t retail (and you may just not wanna play classic which is fine) but there are PVP realms on SoD which are moderately balanced where you can get that nostalgic feeling you are looking for.
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Every time I see someone post about how world pvp was better back in the day I just imagine them sitting outside a contested lowbie leveling town and one-shotting people flexing how good they are and then running away when max levels of the opposite faction show up.
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Quoting it doesn’t make it true, it being true makes it true.
The highest pop servers on SoD are pvp servers.
/sigh
No it isn’t for all the reasons previously mentioned. Pvp servers had communities. Warmode shards don’t. When I log off an alt on a warmode shard and get on my main, I can go to the same zone my alt was just in and have it filled with totally different people. That is not nor was it ever how pvp servers worked. We had communities.
No, pve servers are about choice. Pvp servers are a commitment. When you roll on a pvp server, you accept that you are rolling on a dangerous realm. You don’t get to carebear your way to max level and wait until you have full raid gear and then decide you want to pvp.
I really do not understand pve players continuing to argue about this. You already have pve servers, and you have warmode (a glorified pve server with a fancy name). Adding a pvp server for pvp players would not affect any of you in the slightest.
It makes me lmao that people constantly complain about how horrible and toxic the pvp community is, yet when we ask for our own servers all of you come out of the woodwork to yell “NO!!! I don’t like those rules, even though I won’t play there, nobody should have those rules… because reasons!”
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Capital city raids were the thing when people were in capital cities. Even on a PvP realm, at this point most players would be in the Dragon Isles, possibly even duking it out with someone - so they are going to drop whatever PvP activity they are doing to get back to Valdrakken and then through to Stormwind because someone is attacking it? And what do they get for doing that? A bit on honor and any titles they dont already have?
Stormwind/Org invasions happen on PvE as well and anyone who wants to take part only has to flag themselves for PvP, not even turn warmode on. The fact that nobody is interested just means that…nobody on at that time is interested.
Lol had some person (Horde) try to guilt trip me for killing someone (Alliance) at one of the FFA’s in order to get the tag. To me it was like any other WPVP experience, but to this SJW, and I quote “It was kind of an @$$ move”. All I said was it’s Warmode and flew off. Albeit his original realm wasn’t a PVP one, and my main realm was PVE, but I’ve played on PVP servers a lot and this is just how WPVP goes.
Warmode really is for people who don’t enjoy WPVP and want to pick and choose when they wanna experience it.
PVP realms were a constant immersion, and Warmode just cannot replicate that and it never has been able to…
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WoW outsourced all its communities to discord half a decade ago. This is pure nostalgia talking, don’t fool yourself into thinking the vast majority of any PVP organization on those realms wouldn’t happen almost entirely in a discord channel.
Plus! due to discord you are no longer limited by a single server community and currently can discuss and organize with people who enjoy PVP as you do. Just have to find them, which shouldn’t be hard since you enjoy Wpvp and can know where to look.
Because it is, it’s generally accepted the entire game is toxic.
Those of us without rose colored glasses know there is more to a PVP realm than the glorious once a year city raids and SS/TM tussles. How fast a few people disagreeing with you turned into some concerted effort to step on your preference is pretty telling about your and others attitudes. Shouldn’t be throwing stones when your only defense is nostalgia and mud slinging.
also the choice to get rid of PVP servers was likely based on internal numbers that we are not privy too, not PVE players crying about PVP servers. Which likely meant engagement was down on those realms. Based on how quickly classic PVP realms became mono faction also doesn’t help the case for them to return to retail realms.
OK, my turn.
Played since Vanilla on TFC, started Hordeside back in the days when you couldn’t cross the faction line on the same server. First contested zone I enter, I face a death timer as a Rogue shanks me on the way to Org. ‘Okay, fine,’ I figure, ‘that’s a one-off kind of deal, this probably won’t be the nor-’ I spy a mounted Alliance mage who apparently spots me too. Nothing I can do, I run, I even try to Charge mobs (and get promptly Dazed) to create space. Frostbolt, followup, dead. Once more a grayscale.
Couple more ‘jumps’ later and I make it to Org, level a bit, then get to Barrens. Oh god, Barrens. Specifically Crossroads. The very first time I go there I see it littered with skeletons and dead NPCs, and then I get rushed by a Paladin and Hunter. Dead, of course, so I go back res and see if they’ve moved on. They have not, and down I go again.
Now I have a res timer. Oh, goodie. I also realize at this point I can ‘survey’ the area as a Ghost near my body before committing to reviving. I wait until it looks clear, revive, try to get to a quest turn-in, then I’m chain-stunned by a Rogue until that same Paladin showed up to finish the job.
I ask in /1 for help, and about 20 minutes later a small Horde squad shows up. They skirmish and I try reviving. Turns out, the Horde squad got folded and I died again.
So I decided it just wasn’t worth it and logged. What a grand amount of ‘fun’, to get chain-ganked on the way to quests, have an entire town shut down because of other players, and then the ‘response team’ completely flatlined by said players, meaning I had no ability to keep playing the game until they got bored and left. Other towns would get raided and literally no response would show up, so leveling characters had zero support.
Eventually the faction wall dropped and I tried Alliance-side, and the same exact thing happened, but this time in Darkshire. Horde quasi-raid shows up and extincts the entire town, we call for assistance, Alliance responders get drilled after a brief and one-sided skirmish, and we’re told by one of the responders that we should just abandon the town.
What a ‘great’ feeling.
They would have to keep a pvp code base for any number of pvp servers. That is an increase in cost. They would need qa for that single server. They eliminated pvp servers and saved a lot of money and hassle. Fixing the problems sharding gives to wpvp would probably go a long way to improving things.
I’m sorry you had a bad experience on a pvp server. But the nice thing is, you are no longer on a pvp server, and will never have to experience a pvp server again! Even if one does exist, just turn your head away and pretend like it’s not even there. The server you are on now can be your home forever.
Retail is a PvE game now. The damage has been done and I quit having faith it will get better. The sooner folks realize that the faster the pve players can solve the problem. It’s apparent and the bigger community won. Does it suck? Of course but nothing’s gonna change like it use to be. However if they try and make an authentic pvp server it could help those that did enjoy the gem the game use to be in the wpvp aspect.
Blizzard had years of time to and resources to show us they cared. However raid tiers are far more important. The only thing pvp players got was arena 3v3 and Esport attention. However as a wpvp player I don’t care for that. The last good wpvp era we had ended with WoD tannan jungle from WoD, after that we had a collapse for that content and are now in a great depression.
Now all factions are becoming friendly and most cities and minor cities are shared as neutral with no conflict. There is no world defense or dev push to make things better. It is what it is. I’m thankful at least to say this has drove me to play many other games on the market on the bright side.
…you can use discord in conjunction with guilds on a non-sharded-to-oblivion server. People used mumble and ventrilo back in the day. Did that somehow invalidate pvp server communities?
Right… but it shouldn’t bother people when all the toxic players want to gather on their own servers away from everyone else, yet this somehow inexplicably bothers pve players.
Lol? That’s certainly a take. Read my numerous posts in this thread. There are one or two specific people who keep using circular logic to argue endlessly after having everything explained to them numerous times in numerous ways.
You’re doing the same thing a lot of pvers always do in threads like this - call pvpers toxic, gankers, bads that can only gank, griefers, etc, and then finally some pvp player says something back (even mildly) and it’s immediately “see! you are toxic! can’t argue and just insult ppl omg!” while ignoring hundreds of paragraphs of legit arguments and all the previous mudslinging by pvers.
Just trying to make a change. If it doesn’t happen, oh well. But we know from the past, if a topic becomes big enough, eventually Blizzard might look at it.
I wish nothing but the best for our community, I just know after years of doing just that It stressed me out and when “BFA” came out it seemed like the cinematic baited so many of us back to the game to be disappointed. It screamed war but all we got was PvE.
Keep fighting the big fight buddy, just don’t lose sleep over it o7
Neither of those are comparable to discord. Not an argument. Those programs lacked the connectivity and ability to plan and schedule that discord has, as well as the ability to be a repository of knowledge.
Mumble and vent were voice lobbies.
The game itself is toxic was my statement, but I understand that you are hyper attached to your own jingoistic take on PVP vs PVE servers. I played both for years what it’s worth.
I do, they ignore and write off any post that doesn’t align with your views of PVP. Your own logic as well as others in favor has been entirely circular. Heck, I even asked one person several times a very easy and reasonable question and was hit with deflection and attitude.
Not a PVE only player, please drop your tribalism otherwise you are going to be seen as arguing in bad faith by yet another person in this thread.
Because these are all things that happened regularly on PVP realms, more so then these raids and town fights being held on a pedestal, despite the claims to the contrary, and would happen again instantly on any new PVP realm. These things are facts, I also find it hilarious that you call people out for painting PVP players with a single brush while doing the same to PVE players. Classy.
Jingoistic thinking is self limiting.
Ahh the good ol’days,
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It was a whole lot less invasive than Discord is as a program for sure.
I don’t know if it’s been mentioned, but I wonder how WvW (world v world) instances would go over here. Persistent, massive zones, where players would sign up to be one of three “factions” and then zone in to engage in PvP. GW2 has this and it’s pretty popular there.
Could even make it Warcraft RTS themed by selecting old battlefields
It’s not the persistent, always-on PVP for days of yore, though.