If DK (Blood/UH/Frost) had a party/raid buff, what would it be? Something unique so you may want to invite a DK over a DH.
“Deathly Plague” - converts all other party/raid members to Death Knights so they to can understand the plight of being perpetually ignored by developers, let alone competent ones.
23 Likes
we used to have horn of winter which at various times gave different AP buffs.
Both specs need an entire overhaul and “rebranding” they need to focus on what they ARE other than just flashy particle animations and theme.
Unholy is bloated because its trying to combine TWO gaming tropes into one package; the “Minion-Master” and the “Attrition Class”… They need to completely overhaul the tree and have you choose either to focus on Undead or Diseases (like how Frost Mages/Hunters can get rid of their pet)… they need to allow us to embrace the Plague Knight or Embrace the Undead Minion-Master… but not BOTH.
Frost has issues on a mechanical level because of their rotation and animations are incredibly boring and its like a roller-coaster of hitting like a chump unto PoF goes then you pump obliterates… that or its just a game of trying to keep breath going for as long as possible which is also incredibly dull.
Frost (IMO) should be about PBAOE damage and CC, it should be more emphasis on Remorseless winter (RW), get rid of Death and Decay and bake its effects into the former, reducing its cooldown as well. Frost should be about YOU being a frozen juggernaut that radiates an aura of cold, slows everyone down and is beefy and hits like a truck, NOT chump. The entire class is a wheelchair class because the games evolved beyond their playstyle since Legion, but the class hasn’t evolved.
Mythics, raids, and other classes are outdating Frost… and yet frost still has the same weaknesses and none of the improvements.
After a complete re-branding and remodeling of the specs…
I think a Raid-wide Buff for Frost and Unholy would be thus:
Frost = Jagged Ice "Coats you and your party members armor in a layer of jagged ice thatincrease armor by +X% of all party and raid members, and applies a Thorns effect (like old school druid). Reasoning: Its flavorful and also a buff that isn’t largely performed by other classes… i don’t wanna see another generic +Haste or +crit or +damage… this buff makes it flavorful, its unique and it lends into the theme of a Frozen Juggernaut who is hard to hit and hits hard right back.
The problem is they made Blood the “Tank spec” all about life-stealing, yet thematically a Frozen Juggernaut should be the beefy tank, impenetrable and invulnerable under all that ice… when i think “burst”… i don’t think a wintery knight. But i digress, because i know they’ll never make Frost a tank spec… but we can at least rebrand HOW it approaches damage and its overall theme. I think a move away from a “Bursty” single-target theme to a more PBAoE winter juggernaut that slows everyone down and whittles them down is more appropriate… Its also because the APM of the entire game is so high and fast-paced that it makes the playstyle and theme feel weird because they clash.
Unholy = I think should have two buffs, but they’re entirely dependant in their class tree as to what path you go; the Plague Knight or the Minion-Master. If you go one side of the talent tree (Plague Knight), i think they should move the Necrotic aura (pvp talent) to unholy and have that be this respective buff, essentially increasing the Magic damage of all raid members. If they go the other side of the talent tree (Minion-Master), their respective buff is instead they increase the Physical (melee/ranged) damage of all raid members.
The plague knight emphasizes magic and dark magic to wither and rot the flesh of their foes (hence the magic dmg buff), whereas the minion-master uses dark magic to command ghouls and armies of undead to rip and tear and eat their foes with frenzied abandon. (hence the physical dmg buff).
2 Likes
Buffing AMZ in 5 man parties similar to darkness buff that just happened would be for starters. It could be buffed in raid as well. It had no business being nerfed to the state it currently is.
Maybe some sort of talent that increases cast time on mobs when affected by diseases? I think utility group buffs would be more worth than damage or stats. Everyone already does that and I can’t think of a way to give something to dk in that form that wouldn’t just be broken or redundant of another class.
10% attack power. Bring back HoW, or make it an aura.
1 Like
AMZ should be buffed and not be dependent on spec for power. (Baseline imo as well)
I would say literally anything we had before would be nice, look at wotlk talents and there are a multitude of things to choose from. Sadly, a lot of what we once had was given to other classes.
Honestly not the biggest fan of AMZ as the go to buff. I’d rather have a talent like mages do with barrier but for AMS or just a general leech buff.
My favorite idea I’ve heard was a passive leech buff like 3-5%, then when you use a dps cd (DT, PoF, etc), you buff that leech to like 25%+. That way you make the group tankier.
I think currently insidious chill is a nice idea, but its too difficult to take in our tree and is applied in an annoying way. Maybe make it so we can apply insidious chill but maybe a nerfed version through our cleave? That might feel nice.
That is an absolutely insane amount; I don’t think you understand how massive 5% permanent Leech would be. That or Avoidance alone without anything else would be enough to warrant a DK in every raid group.
2 Likes
A crit buff would be cool to have in game. But honestly not having unique buffs would be nice. Give them battle shout, mark of the king, bring back blessing of kings a d give it to dk, etc.
My raid doesn’t have a warlock or warrior (I’ve been playing paladin lately). Spreading these buffs out would be great.
Was just throwing numbers out. Would depend if there was an active increase or not. In the next expac they’re giving a talent that gives the group 100% leech when you press lichborne for its entirety.
I have 5% leech on my dk currently. Looking at the last key I did, if I were to multiply that leech by 5 (which is generous since its including my active lich leech), it would still give a decent amount less healing than the mages ice barrier did throughout the whole key.
I agree it would probably be too much if it was 5% paired with the active part, but just passive 5% leech isnt anything more overwhelming than dh’s passively adding 20k dps to a group.
Also ret pally just passively reduces all damage your group takes by 3% with devo aura. You think 5% leech is that much more insane than 3% dmg reduction? I don’t at all.
No, they aren’t.
They’re giving Lichborne 3% extra leech. Then, when active, it gives double its leech to 4 nearby allies, for a total of either 6% or 26% (unclear without actual in-game numbers).
Either way, that’s not 100% leech.
Leech reduces the amount of healing healers have to do. Devo flat reduces the damage and that’s it. Leech doesn’t reduce but makes everything heal you, so yes, it’s generally about the same in strength, maybe more since it counters DoT damage much more efficiently.
You’re right I misread the increase to leech.
I’m very aware of what leech is and how it works. The amount of damage you’d mitigate by having 3% damage reduction flat to a group is going to be more than the healing you’d get from 5% leech. Not to mention when doing difficult content, mitigating the damage before it comes in is often more valuable.
IMHO Paladin Auras their current form are an issue as a whole they do too much to be honest.
Devotion Aura should have remained Armor increase or Physical damage reduction primarily only
Paladins should never have got the 3% Flat Damage Reduction. If it must cover an element of magical damage as well as physical then it should be limited to only cover Physical and at most two other types of damage such as Shadow & Nature for example.
However, with it covering Arcane, Fire, Frost, Holy, Nature, Physical, & Shadow is a actually something that should never have happened in the first place. The reason I say this is based on what the it did originally as functionally it should never have evolved in to the version it is today. In the original form all Devotion Aura did was add ARMOR values; this in turn was a functional way to reduce physical damage through higher armor values; it wasn’t capable of reducing any magic damage whatsoever.
Concentration Aura is extremely useful in the right circumstances
The ability for a Paladin to use Concentration Aura which reduces all Interrupt and Silence effects on Party and Raid by 30% is significant as this is primarily the only raid/party wide silence or interrupt reduction buff in game
The crazy thing about this is that a Paladin gets both of these auras for ONE TALENT POINT for all intensive purposes this would be something like if DK’s had a talent that replaced the one for Anti-Magic Shell with a new one that was for example called:
Spellwarder’s Magic Defence - Learn Anti-Magic Shell and Anti-Magic Zone with the explanation of each below in the talent tooltip.
Which was located in the 2nd Talent row and its cost was only 1 talent point to acquire.
In essence the point I am making is that Paladins are getting all four Aura abilities for only 2 talent points. Just stop and think about that for a minute while considering the concerns and challenges many have raised consistently about the dysfunctional and poor design of the Death Knight Talent trees.
Anyway back on topic…
They could thematically come up with some unique opposing auras for Death Knights in contrast to the Paladin. For example instead of Concentration you might have Confusion Aura, then maybe you have Aversion Aura instead of Devotion Aura.
In terms of Retribution Aura maybe something like Grace of Death Aura; and last but not least Crusader Aura might become Maligner Aura.
This wouldn’t be hard to do and surely it wouldn’t all that difficult coming up with some group/raid buff or debuff auras for Death Knights that are in opposition to those that Paladins have available.
Dks have the fabulous buff though.
Frost raid buff could be Frostbite, attackers suffer X amount of damage when striking you and their attack speed is slowed for X seconds (cannot stack)
Unholy raid buff could be your attacks now have Unholy power and can apply an extra attack on your target lowering their defenses for X seconds
Blood could be, you occasionally draw blood from your enemies and heal your party for a small % amount of damage (can crit)
As for certain talents should become baseline for DK, on the DK tree I know for sure, AMZ should be baseline and the talents should buff it.
Soul Reaper is a sad sad talent for the end of the tree, either change it or remove it.
Abom Limb is important enough that you almost have to grab it almost all the time.
As for the Frost tree, Frostscythe is meh, either buff its damage on KM procs or remove it imo.
DnD cleave should be removed entirely for frost and bake it into Remorseless Winter.
Chill Streak can go back to being a PvP talent to be honest. It either needs a graphical overhaul or damage buff to make it feel better when you push use it.
BoS should not be the go to raid option by such a large margin.
Please take Unleashed Frenzy out, trying to upkeep your STR buff while getting targeted by mechanics or being held up by phase transitions and then always having to build it back up in the middle of a lust is just asinine.
Frost Trike STILL hits like a wet noodle, If anything everything we do as frost should apply razorice, or just remove razorice as a debuff and bake that extra damage into the entire spec.
Just a few ideas.
When anyone grouped with a DK dies they are immediately raised as undead for 1 min with some basic abilities. Casters would become a frost magnus and melee would become a ghoul. Does not count as a brez.
I couldn’t agree more, especially with the last part.
Could be cool. As long as its impactful enough, scaling with the dead player’s gear
Looking cool in transmog competitions only gets us so far