i love rogue theme but i hate cp system really.
i prefer chi or holy power system. or merciless resolve style if you played ESO nightblade.
there is no mean if you spam finisher more times than builder.
as a theme you must use finisher rarely but with giga damage
whats the point of cps as sub rogue? with CD you are filling cps with one builder and spamming finisher. and its damage equal other classes spam skills.
Now fix the bugs and increase our damage numbers 
For OP and anyone else thatâs disillusioned by the lack of communication, I recommend checking out the Rogue Discordâ I havenât been on there recently, but I recall the class dev being fairly active on there.
As for the changes:
Thistle Tea: I agree that this change sucks. Youâre going to run through the three charges super quickly, and it will feel like a deadweight loss on our ability to burst when our RTB/procs align. Sucks as a capstone.
Trickster: At least on Outlaw, the coup de grace feels seriously mediocre. It needs to have its damage multiplied like 4x or something. It feels like super low impact.
Realz hasnât been there in over a year, Some say he got promoted and isnât working on classes at all now. Which would explain why it seems nothing happened all beta and what did happen was terrible. He wasnât the best but he was better than nothing at all.
Simple solution to Thistle Tea change - take off the mastery component. Re tune abilities as necessary. Done.
He started posting again as of 2 days ago so I would assume heâs back which is why weâre seeing literally any changes at all to begin with.
Not really sure I find that as a good thing as well points at everything. At least when you could say no one was there a kind of made sense but if heâs been there, thatâs worse, you can see how thatâs worse right?
Thatâs actually so so bad. He was there the whole time? the whole time? and this is what we got?
I mean the sad reality is Blizzard probably sees literally zero reason whatsoever to apply any resources to a class that nobody plays even though it feeds into the loop that less people play it because we get nothing.
People will always say that thereâs âteamsâ and not solo developers and for some classes (lol mages) that might be the case but itâs definitely not for Rogues. Everybody seems to forget that our entire rework got pushed back from 10.1.5 to 10.2.0 (4 months btw) purely because Realz had to step away for personal things he had to go take care of. Rogue definitely doesnât have anybody working on it when heâs not around and itâs very obvious.
Is that true? Man Bonez, youâre a cure for happiness and optimism sometimes.
Sepsis just sucks imo. I regretted going night fae in shadowlands because of that ability. Flagellation is much much better.
Part of the issue also comes down to the complexity of the problems. Itâs why Shaman rarely sees any care either, despite having player counts double or triple ours. But they also have a healing spec and can access content just by virtue of having that alone, so they donât fall off as quick/easy.
The rogue kit has a lot of intermingling interactions between abilities that have knock-on effects when changed, and adding the fact that it seems like we basically have no one working on the class 80% of the time, it adds up to a lack of attention and polish thatâs finally cracking now that large chunks of the talents are just breaking every other patch.
Sin already had 2 charges of Shadowstep when taking the one talent in the class tree.
The changes just allow for Outlaw Rogues to have 2 charges of Grappling Hook instead of 1 charge of Grappling Hook and 1 charge of Shadowstep. This particular change is a good one.
It would be if grappling didnât bug half the time.
Until they fix that, Outlaw losing step hurts.
So I like some of the changes alot.
Cut to the Chase giving us SnD is great but also begs the question of why we have SnD as a finisher.
Thistle Tea being an automatic use on 50 energy is not bad but as people have pointed out it clashes with itâs use as a damage booster because of the mastery increase.
No mention of bugs feels bad to say the least.
CDR taken away also feels really bad on a class so heavily dependent on itâs CDs for baseline performance.
But Iâd like to throw my hat in several discussions I see going on.
I think Gank is making a lot of points that we all agree on but that how they are expressing it is being taken antagonistically rather then from a place of love for the class but exasperation with the design direction. The fact is the âbuilder - > spenderâ resource design is so elegant that we have seen it given out to multiple classes. This way of managing resources is excellent for sign posting through implicit means to the player that there are some abilities you use all the time and then there are these powerful abilities you fire off comparatively less often. It was pretty unique among the classes of Classic WoW and contributed to Rogues special place in play.
It was however, not perfect, and could absolutely be iterated on. Which is it was and we see that in other classes namely Monk and Paladin.
I also agree with Voidarcane, I donât want our system changed to that of Monk. What we need is OUR system given QoL updates in line with the tempo of the game in the modern day. Being double taxed on resources is a sore thumb. There is no reason I should have to spend ANY energy to fire of Evis/Env/Dispatch after I spent the hundreds of energy getting the CPs to use it in the first place. A general rule of thumb here should be if it cost me CPs it shouldnât cost me energy and vice versa.
Then of course there are weird instances of energy cost like Crimson Vial. Why does it cost energy? Itâs an incredibly modest HoT that has a 30 sec CD. Compare that to a Hunterâs Exhilaration which at base heals more and has two very good talent tree nodes for it in the base hunter tree at the very top of the tree so Hunterâs incur little opportunity cost to pick it up.
Feint as well is in this weird place. It has an energy cost in order to place a limit on it, as it is a survivability move but itâs survivability is only in regards to AoE. But it also has CD? Given itâs narrow band of utility maybe just a CD or energy cost would be warranted but not both.
I think that WoW should take some design ideas from other games and not be ashamed of it. Thistle Tea might be a good place to start. Firstly âThistle Teaâ is mostly a call back from the olden days that a lot of players might not get. It may hurt some our hearts but maybe rename the ability? Lean into the idea Assassin Rogues are kind of crazy and would not hesitate to use weird substances to boost their performance. Even poisons. This is an already existing trope in fantasy even. Secondly, allow Thistle Tea to provide a passive buff to the player while having another effect that activates when used. Iâve seen this done in other games and it worked well.
My other issue is all the CDs we have that exist to be macroâd into a key during a burst window. Sepsis, Flagellation, Goremaws Bite, Bonespike, Kingsbane.
They donât add to my experience. Just my damage. They become another miserable CD I have to weave in and manage. I want less of these. I want more utility. Damage is fungible in ways that utility is not. If you understood Shadow Dance merely as a damage boost you would be greatly underutilizing it. Give me something interesting or fun to do and move the damage somewhere else.
I have a ton of ideas that I think would be fun or interesting and like many here Iâve said them on these forums but we keep getting more damage CDs to throw on top of the pile.
Like what if we got a talent called âFlash Powderâ that caused enemies in a 5yd range of the Rogue when they vanish to be disoriented for .5 sec or something?
Or maybe one called âToxic additivesâ that makes Smoke Bomb and Blind continuous apply our poisons to targets under their effect with the caveat that Blind only applies non-lethal poisons?
A Sub talent that cause Distract to spawn a copy of you that runs in the direction you were facing when you threw it. This copy looks indistinguishable from you at the time you use it, showing as having the same HP and everything but when damage immediately poofs out of existence.
A talent that while stealthed Feintâs duration is increased by 3 secs. While under the effects of Feint, stealth cannot be broken by damage. Instead the Rogue merely flickers shortly into sight before disappearing again.
Outlaw Rogue talent that when they use Pick Pocket they put a blackpowder charge in your pocket that detonates after 6 secs or whenever the target is hit with Pistol Shot or Between the Eyes. Damage increased if it is activated early. Or maybe pick pocketing an enemy gives you an extra charge of Red Vial up to 3 stacks maybe?
Or maybe a talent that makes Grappling Hook work? Thatâd be sweet.
I could go on. I suspect we all could really.
Stop it. Youre hopeless. Dev spends his spare time talkking to people for funsies and you think thats a sign of changes after months of 0 communication on official forums? Even when he spoke there for 10.2 rework and other betas, all the changes were half baked in the end.