100% instantly uninstalling
And no way the additions remotely compensate for the loss of CDR and sepsis. Sepsis I am less concerned about assuming the damage gets baked into the core kit. But losing CDR is 100% game breaking not to mention losing self heals for no reason.
How does giving Sin an extra charge of step/vanish remotely help Sub which already had 2 charges and 100% works around having CDR.
They are just making blanket sweeping changes based on rando forum posts without remotely thinking about the ramifications this quite frankly is insanity.
I actually was enjoying the expansion so far despite all the bugs. How about any freaking mention to literally everything breaking stealth? How about any mention to Vanish instantly breaking all the time?
Yet we are nerfing CDR, and survivability for a spec that is 10000% reliant on CDs to function. Not to mention blind/stun/CC duration nerfed in DF. Gouge further nerfed to 3 seconds, kidney nerfed to a 30 second.
Like in what world are these changes even being considered with an extra charge of symbols which is a complete joke given the fact that Vanish CDR is the only thing that kept the spec flowing by resetting the cds on symbols, kidney reducing the CD of everything allow for shadow dance uptime.
Given the fact that the spec does 5% damage out of dance and 95% inside of dance removing uptime by removing CDR is just insanity. The entire spec would have to be completely rebalanced around not having CDR and that isn’t some knee jerk reaction that can take place now. The chance was multiple months of alpha/beta feedback to make these sweeping changes.
No words can describe the injustice!
11 Likes
Yeah, I just had a friend send me the changes going “I think you’ll like the rogue changes”
Immediately angry at most of them as an Outlaw main.
- Changed the shadowstep charge to another grapple charge. I don’t know about anyone else, but having shadowstep was nice because it’s not going to bug out half as much as grapple.
- Zero changes to address Trickster, bare minimum for Fatebound. Alright, cool, so Trickster was just added because you had to, and you’re doing nothing with it. Awesome.
- Changes to talents that are buggy or in low utilization due to garbage tree set up, zero mention of bug fixes for the multitude of game breaking bugs the class is handed right now.
- Blade flurry range increase is a half measure that does nothing to fix the actual issue. We’re not having 70% of our issues because the ability barely reaches targets, we’re having issues because we can’t maintain uptime with the cut-down range on the base casts.
- The Crackshot change is another half measure to combat one of three of the bugs with it. This still isn’t addressing the fact that it acts like the mobs are immune 80% of the time or will instantly go on CD due to some of the ability window clipping.
- Soothing Darkness is a nice change but barely scrapes the surface. I was doing PVP last night and watched a Fury warrior regain 40% of their health outside of their healing cooldown just passively while a mage actively wailed on them. My healing was 1/10th their’s before I died.
- Cut to the Chase is the only net positive change. I have zero complaints. Good job, 1 win out of a blanket of bad.
6 Likes
It’s only the first PTR. It seems most of the work for this build was Hunter reworks, Shaman polishing, Paladin class tree revamp, and Balance Druid revamp. We should see more work done.
So far the only awesome Rogue change is the Cut to the Chase change so we no longer need to activate Slice and Dice (99.9% of the time I’m sure there will be a very niche situation someone could think of to hard use it again) and Thistle Tea auto activating when we hit 50 energy or less.
Shout out to the icon changes for Shadowland covenant abilities.
3 Likes
I have been putting up with the zillion bugs that where beaten to death and articulated by numerous rogues on the beta forums. With each passing day being met with complete silence. Now they are deciding to make SWEEPING changes to Sub just as the expansion starts without considering the sweeping ramifications of removing CDR from the spec. If that is the direction they wanted to go at the BEGINING of alpha/beta sure fine go for it iterate it on it and flesh out the rework.
You can’t just be like o hey we are removing one of the most core functions of a spec which the spec is completely balanced around as some passing change without sweeping changes and rebalances to make the spec function without it. Having CDR was super nice because it added depth to how you utilized your CDs/Vanish to be both offensive and defensive.
Vanish/Stealth hardly even works now so barely has defensive value and the offensive aspect was completely gutted.
I stayed silent throughout the entire beta iteration holding on to the delusion that they would eventually sort out the bugs. I was enjoying the expansion so far and despite the bugs enjoying Sub overall. The single change of removing shadowdust with no further sweeping changes is the last straw for me though if it goes live. I have been playing since Vanilla on and off since after Cata. I have never doom or gloomed or seen a change that has made me instantly want to uninstall the game. This however defies all rational or logic…
2 Likes
They’ve done the bare minimum to keep the class existing since TWW beta with 0 communication; some of this addresses the pain points, but I’m not holding my breath that they’ll actually iterate and address the rest of it.
Rogue and Priest should’ve been at the top of the list of classes and hero specs receiving a long list of changes in the first tease of changes - The fact that they’re not doesn’t bode well.
9 Likes
It’s funny that the 11.0.5 remake we knew was coming seems to be changes almost factory designed to anger the players of the class more.
Someone internally has a vested hate for rogues, 100%. Whoever they had take over after the midway on the beta cycle has done nothing but make changes that are problematic and entirely against the community’s needs.
7 Likes
To be fair, nearly every hunter main in my guild (as well as friends) has swapped classes to something else and hunter hero talents were horribly implemented. With this news many of them are deciding to go back to hunter and suffer the few months for the changes.
Shamans needed some polishing to their rushed rework on Beta (literally added the last few weeks of Beta), Balance Druids are in a lackluster state right now and need help and Paladins really needed a spec tree overhaul.
I am hoping the next build we see in a week or two will have a large amount of Priest and Rogue changes.
1 Like
I am convinced at this point that the devs are just picking out random sentiments that were echoed on the forums with a very small portion of the posters advocating for the removal of shadowdust. I am unequivocally against such a removal as I enjoy the more complex non linear non deterministic gameplay that having CDR provides.
Though I understand both viewpoints and I understand the spec can be balanced around not having CDR but that requires SWEEPING CHANGES to both:
- Cooldowns
- Damage
- Survivability
Since literally every balance aspect of the spec is directly correlated to the existence of having CDR
3 Likes
They have until November, but I’m not holding my breath on this.
The goodwill they earned previously is entirely dried up after six months of Beta PTR feedback being tossed out the window. Now they’re cherry-picking the least impactful positive changes while weaving in some of the most negative net nerfs that, once again, hamper the class.
The malice for the class is palpable at this point.
4 Likes
People still say something like this after all these years of nothing happening much less the fact the beta people kept saying next build next build and literally nothing happened.
Too busy reworking pally/hunter/sham again lol
Also the shadowstep thing is only to make combat have 2 charges of grapple not give sub/assassin 3 shadowsteps they still just have 2.
The only positive change is the cut to the chase change but at this point why not just remove snd? How many times do we have to do this? Wod snd passive legion removes snd. So are we waiting for 12.0 to remove it again?
We can see they weren’t working on rogue’s in the background just like I said in beta shockingly they were just doing even more changes to classes they already reworked…
7 Likes
Except we got a Shaman rework in the last few weeks of Beta…
It’s happened extremely recently.
Do I really need to clarify nothing happened to rogues? And clearly there wasn’t something being worked on as there’s still nothing but so much was being done on everything else and what did that mean for rogues in beta?
2 Likes
Doesn’t mean it won’t in the upcoming PTR builds.
Though with our luck we get it in the last few weeks of the PTR cycle and its a buggy/unpolished mess.
We’ve learned from idk like 20 years of beta’s and ptr’s the rogue builds never come. Everyone always says just wait and it never happens. I’d love to be wrong but all these years say 95% nothing happens.
This ptr opening build shows us what they have been working on and shocker it’s everything they were working on in beta.
3 Likes
Same could be said to Shamans who hadn’t gotten any meaningful builds since BfA until it did finally happen in TWW Beta (and now 11.0.5 for polishing).
1 Like
Tbh at this point I would have been happy with nothing coming other than bug fixes. Instead we got sweeping knee jerk reaction changes with so far no associated required changes to make the spec function with the new paradigm.
With a track record as mentioned that leaves one far from being hopeful
2 Likes
My 2 mains. It’s starting to feel personal at this point.
Precise Cuts is a nice buff though. Oh wait, no one talents that any more.
3 Likes
And you want to repeat that line with the time frame of rogues? It goes back more than anything. Many rogue mechanics go back to 2004 you can not say that about any class. Rogue’s goes way beyond just needing talent reworks it needs to modernize 90+% of the class.
To be honest I don’t think they current dev’s have it in them to be able to do what should be done.
3 Likes
Frost Mages Shatter? Fire Mages Ignite? Just to name a few.
And what would you say, in your opinion, needs to be done? Just give a generalization.
Generally, it’s a giant red flag when Shamans get massive changes finally, but your class doesn’t.
Shaman sits on their lowest priority due to all of the things that are needed to balance it, between totems and procs, all of the interactions with the elemental abilities.
So, when they get changes (good for them, genuinely. Love my shaman pals), and you don’t see them, you can almost guarantee Blizzard’s focus isn’t you for the next 6+ months.
2 Likes