It’s also an obviously hyperbolic statement later amended to emphasize that it was about the populace moreso than some faction leaders like Jaina. Perhaps I should have said “it feels like”?
Even Jaina, our major mage representation, studied in Dalaran though. Dalaran Dalaran Dalaran. Always shown as part of “Alliance” context, whether in novels or in-game, and yet always relegated to neutrality in-game as well.
I mean… can you really disagree? The Human magic representation is and always has been Dalaran in the story. This is why its absence is noted.
Years of lore have always had ancient Night Elf cities, Dalaran, and Silvermoon as THE magic centers. It is what it is.
I wouldn’t mind conquering Silvermoon for the Alliance and having it become the new Alliance magic capital though tbh.
With infinite dev time, sure. But I think this is more of a symptom of devs wanting to save time by only designing one hub for neutral content. Bringing Dalaran back to the alliance for good won’t make them any more enthusiastic about wanting to develop a second hub in future expansions.
I was going to suggest that the only way to fix it is to destroy Dalaran altogether, but odds are they’d just replace it with Khadgar running a few mage camps and everyone using the same hub for that stuff anyway.
And the “dev time” is only an issue if you’re asking them to fully develop each center.
I would think people would be satisfied by having the mere representation through NPCs used as a connection, with any direct interfacing with the respective “capitals” done through phasing.
So we’d work with Dalaran mages (and Horde with Silvermoon/Suramar) and whenever we had to go back to the centers we’d be in an area with a backdrop.
Just KNOWING that they are part of the faction is already a big step forward.
The same can be done for the main topic here in Wild Gods. We just need to see those Wild Gods in action. Hyjal is the direct counter to Zandalar in that the former hosts the Wild Gods and the latter hosts the Loa.
We don’t need to have Hyjal with Alliance banners everywhere. Just show some cooperation from these entities.
Oh, I’m not disagreeing that wild gods should show up for alliance. I guess I just don’t see the big deal with the loa because I’ve been conditioned to see them as worth little more than getting farmed for a boss’s power boost, haha.
But he WAS only typing in reply to Mythliel which establishes the context of his reply. Y’know, that think you ignore so you can invent entirely new conversations? And it meant that taking the tack you did was entirely spurious. Did Kisin go into greater material as to what the Horde had than was strictly necessary to rebut Mythliel? Sure. Did it prevent his reply from rebutting Mythliel’s assertion? No. Did anything in Kisin’s ever even try to assert the claim you were challenging? Again, not in the slightest. You invented that out of whole cloth.
You could say that if you like but I’d just reiterate what I’ve already pointed out; that such a feeling would be pure delusion since, Jaina has more material and presence in the new expansion so far than all arcane-users AND nature-magic users in the Horde combined, as does Malfurion. And it’s not like either one of them is actually alone in material and presence Alliance-side either. Nothing can explain such a feeling besides myopia inspired by bitterness and spite since it doesn’t begin to have a trace of support from the actual material.
Right now, we have exactly one instance of a single loa working on the Horde’s behalf against the other faction (and losing). Whether we have an example of any Wild Gods doing the equivalent depends on whether you’re willing to consider the night elves Alliance from back in WC3, where Cenarius confronted the orcs and lost. Technically the night elves weren’t but then Ol’ Bwonsamdi confronts the Alliance on behalf of Rastakhan and the Zandalari who weren’t actually in the Horde yet either.
We’ve seen plenty of other loa appearances to confront or deal with other situations, yes, but then we’ve seen them same from Wild Gods in two other expansions so far as well. Right now, things are actually pretty equivalent.
This response is needlessly aggressive and excessively dismissive.
In your entire quote you only mention Jaina and Malfurion, as if those two can more than make up for the entire setting… and then bring up context from all the way in Warcraft III.
And your arbitrary rulesets such as “being used against the faction” are immaterial.
I can’t believe you even bring up Warcraft III. The entire WoW timeline has had the Alliance baseline power neutered to bring it in line with the Horde level.
You don’t just have Jaina and Malfurion. Just because Khadgar isn’t actively working to fight the Horde doesn’t mean he isn’t an Alliance hero. Not any less than Thrall counts as a Horde hero still despite going neutral in Cata. Besides that Jaina’s mere presence invalidates the Horde’s ONLY active mage character, Thalyssra, who was petrified with fear just from seeing Jaina’s chakra/ki/reiatsu.
You also have the only non-neutral druid character in the entire lore now since Malfurion went full Alliance and all the Horde druids are still neutral, and if we did count neutral druids the Alliance blows the Horde out of the water with Broll, Naralex, Fandral, etc. Night elves alone may have more druid characters than the entire Horde combined.
This is actually pretty important given you’re trying to get the wild gods to fight for the Alliance against the Horde because of the loa. The Zandalari loa aren’t actively fighting the Alliance, they only appeared to fight an Old God threat, which is exactly how the Hyjal gods work.
I also hope we never see loa or wild gods fight the opposing faction because that will be their death warrant. Blizzard loves killing divine guardian figures. The second any wild god sets foot on the field a giant red death flag pops up over their head.
I wasn’t replying to, or attempting to support Mythliel. That has been your assumption. The assumption you made here:
See, you think I was contending the whole claim in my asking for clarification. Which was never once indicated by myself. I didn’t complain. I even expounded later and said on several points that I agreed with Kisin. To which you seem to think it is your authority to disagree and tell me what I meant.
This diatribe of yours has been, entirely, a fabrication of your own rotted out gourd. Evidenced by your apparent utter confusion, hostility, hypocritical butting in, and just flat out being wrong. It has been an utter chore to slog through, and I won’t be indulging it again.
Druid stuff is in an odd boat. It is all heavily night elven themed but has been an area both sides fight to protect since its introduction in WC3.
Horde, Alliance, and the night elves fought to defend it in the Third War, then again in Cataclysm, and most recently a group of cross-faction druids in Legion.
Dalaran started out as a member of the Alliance back in the old RTS games. It was founded by the OG Alliance precursor between humans and high elves and opposed the Horde during the First and Second wars.
Dalaran has a long and storied history of being Alliance, and even during WoW’s lifetime it has flipped between being a neutral questing hub and an Alliance aligned city.
That is the big distinction to me. Hyjal has night elven (which has become the default Cenarion Circle) aesthetic, but not a history of supporting one side or another. It’s always been a place both sides strive to protect due to its importance to the world.
Because it’s a reply to a completely different post which is talking about a different topic with its own setting. You want to talk about more than just Jaina? Umbric, who is also an Alliance mage, ALSO has more content this expansion than all the Horde arcanists do so far (though not necessarily more than all the Horde arcanists AND all the Horde shaman/druids, like Jaina does). Hell, we were even shown the tiny amount of NIGHT ELF mages getting involved, in the intro cinematic. What use of the arcane have we seen Horde-side? Thalyssra being involved in the Horde breakout from the Stockades and Nightborne “archaeologists” using magic to recover a site more “efficiently” are the only examples I can think of. Does Valtrois do anything besides make commentary? Or maybe you’re claiming that all the content from Legion, when the Nightborne were neutral and working with both sides counts as Horde content? While simultaneously insisting that Dalaran doesn’t count because they’re neutral and working with both sides?
You have to show they’re on a faction’s side SOMEHOW. How else do you propose to show it? I’m open to reasonable suggestions. I get this idea though that in your opinion having Wild Gods defend their sacred mountain from an Old God threat has to be considered neutral while loa defending their sacred mountain from an Old God threat has to be considered Horde. Which is just blatantly dishonest.
I am amused that you dismiss Nightborne content in Legion as not being Horde yet are more than comfortable using Warcraft 3 content as Alliance earlier.
Narratively speaking, Hyjal is pretty new to the Horde. Even the Tauren didn’t become Druids until after Hamuul was impressed by them at the Battle of Mount Hyjal, and Hamuul only went seek out Malfurion after the battle was won. Beyond that, it has more than ten-thousands years of history of being Night Elf land, even pre-dating the height of Azshara’s empire.
I mean, BfA kinda already gutted the Hyjal friendly Horde Druid class fantasy when the goal of the War of the Thorns was presented as killing Malfurion. That already rather trumps anything that could be done to Hyjal, short of the Horde deciding to burn it, too.
As we’ve discussed before, Cenarius should have been an Alliance general in the Darkshore Warfront, as it would have pretty much kept Cenarius safe from dying again.
Ten thousand years of being night elven land in pure backstory. It’s first appearance in WC3 was a place to be protected by all who wished to defeat the Burning Legion.
Also tauren were present in defending Hyjal 10,000 years ago as well. Every time it has come under attack it has been a coalition of different races setting aside their differences to protect the sacredness of life.
That is a lot more important to me than who technically owned the land first.
Ugh, I know. I hate every second of this misery.
Oh hey, I guess I finally know how Forsaken feel.
… They are doing this to other people?! Those monsters!
Beyond the instances where destroying Nordrassil would destroy all of Azeroth, the only relevant lore for Hyjal is Night Elf lore and backstory.
Actually, that creates a similarity to Suramar, where the Horde (and Theramore) aren’t really shown supporting Hyjal after either Battle for Mount Hyjal, and just leave it to the Cenarion Circle as lead by Malfurion to clean up both times, with the Horde (and the Alliance) only having been there for their own interests against world ending threats, not in any actually there to aid Hyjal itself, much like the Night Elves only showing up in Suramar to fight the Legion.
Hyjal is only relevant to the story when it is about to be burned. We couldn’t even go there for the first several years of WoW until Ragnaros took an interest in it.
The Horde as an institution isn’t aiding Hyjal, but the Horde who joined the Cenarion Circle stayed behind to help heal the land and protect the tree.
In modern lore the Cenarion Circle is a multi-racial organization. Has been since Vanilla. Hyjal going Alliance would mean the Cenarion Circle either losing control of the region or siding with the Alliance and expunging all Horde players.
I imagine you can guess how I’d feel about being removed from an organization I’ve been a loving member of since Vanilla. I even grinded up the Guardian of Cenarius title to show my druid pride.
Was that shared content for both sides? No. And you’re the one insisting from the beginning that the loa of Zandalar are Horde material even though Zandalar wasn’t yet Horde, while taking the exact opposite stance regarding Dalaran. Weird how your own dance on the exact same tune somehow doesn’t get noticed by you, even when you’re QUOTING it literally being brought up.
As I said before, your comment on the Arcane addresses the situation as it is right now. Your later comment on loa and wild gods was broader. You set the time-scales for the two demi-topics, I’ve followed 'em. You haven’t been consistent in either one yourself however.
Maybe, but it’d still be heartbreaking for me. I’ve always considered myself a member of the Cenarion Circle first and Horde/Alliance second. If the option were there I would have turned on Sylvanas the second she handed Saurfang the axe and fought tooth and claw to protect my Archdruid.
Plus we’re better than those egghead mages in Dalaran. We can set aside personal biases in defense of the world while they play the blame game and perform ethnic cleanses.
![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue:")
![:man_shrugging:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/man_shrugging.png?v=6" ":man_shrugging:")