No, see, you clearly don’t see anything past rank’d spells or borrowed power [legion template 3.0], it isn’t what I am saying.
What are you saying?
That we’d just be getting rewarded with higher iLvl gear?
And we spend 8 months gaining 30 iLvls with the same talents, spells, and abilities we’ve had for years. I’m not entirely opposed to this. Especially if it leads to much tight balance between the specs.
You do you. If you don’t like something, don’t buy it.
i need cat form with wings!
Legion also had unique borrowed power questlines for every classes which made alt play throughs amazing. Now you’ve already heard each story etc, etc, and just want to use the alts for raid but all that work grinding borrowed power really isn’t worth it.
I’d say you wont be playing it then. Temporary or expansion-limited power systems have been in this game for awhile now and I cant see it going away.
No, I’m talking about what happened with borrowed power. You don’t get to move goalposts.
That doesn’t mean it couldn’t change.
There are many ways to keep a talent system engaging and long term.
It took you this long to reply after moving the goalposts.
Go put them back where they were.
Our discussion was on the enjoyment of legion systems while we were playing legion. And the dates I provided entail when that was.
Take your L.
I have a life. Sorry I’m not here every moment for you. 
And you’re the only one moving goalposts because you can’t read my entire post that you literally just quoted.
Trolling as always. Goodbye.
You already know it will lol
Nall or Happy?
“Borrowed power” isn’t inherently bad. Every expansion you’re going to see your character hit harder or less hard. The question is whether or not you have to jump through tons of hoops to do it.
Shadowlands was particularly bad for player power:
- Level to 60 (only 4 dungeons available 50-60, not all dungeons available 10-50)
- Level renown to X (leveled most-quickly through otherwise useless sidequests)
- Do covenant campaign if the first soulbind is bad (otherwise useless sidequests)
- Level additional covenant renowns if your class needs it
- Do Torghast to grind legendary (Torghast sucks on certain classes)
- Grind gold for legendary (easy for old players, hard for new)
- Do PVE content for conduits (ridiculous ask on PVP players)
and this is all parallel to the simple “get gear”, which means if you do this late into the expansion you’re doing it at an obvious competitive disadvantage.
Gear itself is a borrowed power. Your ilevel is less useful with each expansion/patch. The problem is really the barrier to entry to new players, because that translates to pain for new players and old.
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It’s going to be solid wall to wall borrowed power, after looking at BFA and SL that seems to be their ‘vision’ of WoW.
Imagine a world where you hit 100% BiS upon hitting level 60. You’re basically speed racing the end of expansion feeling.
Same. Blizzard needs to learn their lesson with borrowed power, players are tired of it!
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Well help me understand this then.
Is it changing or static?
If it’s changing are they just adding more and more to it?
And what do people mean by borrowed power?
Are tier sets borrowed power?
Are conduits borrowed power?
For the sake of argument lets say tier sets aren’t borrowed power and conduits are.
If we took the set bonuses off the tier gear and put them on to conduits would they then be borrowed powers?
If we took conduit powers and put them on to tiers sets would they cease to be borrowed powers?
If tier sets disappear next expansion but they keep conduits, does that mean that tier sets were borrowed power but conduits turned out not to be?
If we say no more borrowed power does that mean we have leggos, tier sets and conduits for the rest of the game? No more temporary systems, just permanent ones?
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Legion didn’t do it “right” either. It was a mess for alts and people who wanted to catch up. But I do agree, borrowed power CAN be done right as long as there isn’t a grind. The grind is what makes it bad for alts and catching up.
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I said what I meant, not sure how you got
Are we just accepting Legion as the only way to design games and we are incompetent to understand that competent developers can in fact avoid this legion template nightmare baby each expansion and actually let your spec… now hear me out… feel like a full spec… Oh boy I know, CRAZY IDEA!
How did we ever survive so many expansions before they cried bloat.
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This is where all the bodies are buried.
Classical RPG experience and level is essentially meaningless now. That used to be the major progression and gating system. Would take weeks level to your character and gain all the powers and abilities that were tied to it.
But players got tired of spending weeks killing twenty thousand pigs so hitting max level can now be done in a single extended play session.
What then? You’re instantly at max level and instantly have all your powers. Just grind for gear? Well that was the other classical progression system and like killing twenty thousand pigs, people got tired of raid or die.
So where does that leave the devs?
What’s happened is experience and level got transferred to multitude of other alternative experience counters that you can find in your rep and currency tab. All silo’d to specific activities all with specific rewards. You’re still essentially killing 20 thousand pigs to unlock your spells and talents, it’s just in a bunch of different places.
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I’m ok with borrowed power if it’s done well. It keeps the scaling from one expansion to another from getting ridiculous.