People who have played the game longer than you, and recognize that it has become objectively worse over time?
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Semantics? The merger happened during TBC. Thatâs not semantics; thatâs a statement of fact.
Youâre the one trying to make some argument based on nothing more than personal opinion, and disregarding the facts that occurred. Iâm not defending Activision or discounting the impact it may or may not have had. But the truth of that impact is something none of us really know.
I used to think that Activision destroyed Blizzard. And Iâm sure to some degree it did, but let me go into the story I alluded to earlier. Mark Kern was a Team Lead on original Vanilla. Not long after WoW launched, he was brought into a meeting with the Suits. High level producers and marketing people. They told him to lay off a bunch of people from his Team. He said he didnât want to. That he had assured these people they were joining a family when they were hired. And one of the producers replied, âToo bad. Weâre a real company now.â
Translation: this is nothing more than a business. Weâre not family. The workers mean nothing to us. Itâs all about the bottom line. So people can blame everything on Activision, but itâs a copout. The culture and environment at Blizzard was crumbling before Activision even entered the mix. My opinion is that Activision had more to do with the monetizing changes in WoW. Iâm sure itâs no coincidence that the first cash shop mount went into the game a year into Wrath. By the way, that cash shop mount made the more money than the totality of Starcraft 2. So sadly itâs no surprise Blizz went that route of putting micro-transactions above the quality of the product. Whales are the players they care about.
In any event, have whatever opinion you want. But respect the facts of the situation at least. And the fact is the merger happened in TBC.
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Semantics is demanding me agree that by recognizing the actual merge deal happened in TBC, the merge canât be what caused these issues. Itâs not like Blizzardâs operations changed the second the deal was signed. But it happened because of it. Pointing to the date of the signing is a stupid arbitrary non-argument that I donât know why youâre arguing.
Way to agree with literally my entire point while arguing about the date of the merge agreement just for the sake of arguing. Spectrum?
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I started in the first month of vanilla and played until a few months into BfA. Thereâs nothing objective about the quality of this game. Itâs all just a subjective personal opinion. I have no doubt what so ever that some retail players tried Vanilla classic and thought the game sucked. Whether I agree with that subjective opinion is irrelevant. Unlike you Iâm smart enough to know the difference between the definition of âsubjectiveâ and âobjective.â Hereâs what you should do. Look up those words in a search engine. Because youâre literally making a fool of yourself now.
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Another person on the spectrum who would rather argue the semantics of âobjectiveâ vs âsubjectiveâ rather than acknowledge the fact that concepts like paid cosmetics, battle passes, loot boxes, etc arenât player friendly systems and exists soley to extract wealth from people due to fear of missing out.
What is it with the âtismâ that makes people focus on irrelevant details (the exact date a merger happened, the dictionary definition of objectivity) and write an entire reply to it while ignoring the entire context of the post itself.
guffaw thereâs nothing objectively wrong with child labor, as you can clearly see some children clearly yearn to labor in the mines. Unlike you I am smart enough to know the difference between objective and subjective, so donât try to self-righteously push your value system unto me!
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Iâm not arguing about any date. I stated a fact.
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I donât care about any of those things. I donât care about paid cosmetics any more than I care about transmog. Some people care about how they look or the mount theyâre riding and I donât care if blizzard makes money off them. I care about playing the game.
I cared about small things like the hunter dead zone. Removing it was an improvement. And bigger things, I care about doing dungeons so rdf made the game better for me. And adding loot to encourage tanks and healers to join rdf made the game better for all of my dps alts. I care about dual spec, especially since I played a few healers. I cared about raid size. I hated the 40 man raids in vanilla. Smaller raid size made the game much more fun for me. All those are my subjective opinions. Vanilla was a good game for itâs time but I only came back to classic to support it in the hopes that the much better expansions would come too. Vanilla sucked, everything that followed until WoD was better.
Jeez youâre too stupid for words. Children were begging their parents to pay so they could play wow. No child would pay to work in the mines for free. Morality rests on our values. Only extreme suffering could force children to work in a mine. The choice was often starvation or work. In that situation working in the mines was the objectively better choice if we hold life as a value. Finding ways to avoid the choice between child labor or starvation is objectively moral we value reducing the suffering of children.
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Yes, people like you are the problem and why theyâll never stop.
Most people do. You probably do as well. Thatâs why many people raid over and over hoping to get a mount with a 1% drop chance.
What smooth brains like you fail to recognize is this is one of many incentives to actually engage with the actual game, and allowing players to purchase these things with money has a cascading effect of destroying the integrity of the game itself.
And to all the people who argued there was a clear distinction between âcash shopâ and âin gameâ cosmetics, where are you now that âtraderâs tenderâ is now purchasable with cash to obtain these items? Who could have predicted, imagine my shock.
The majority of these things were added in BC and Wrath. Youâre having an entirely different argument with a strawman. Iâve listed out a myriad of reasons why retail sucks, and these things were not amongst them. Just because I say âretail sucksâ doesnât mean everything they added post vanilla was bad.
So youâre arguing that the last five expansions sucked yet for some reason still feel compelled to say Iâm stupid and you disagree with the premise of my argument.
Do you have the 'tism? Seriously.
The entire context of my mockery of you clearly went over your head. Once again, probably because you have the 'tism. Allow me to explain:
I was mocking you for stating my assertion that âaggressive monetization makes the game bad and people donât like itâ isnât objective, and saying it was just my opinion because you can find some people that like it by using a hyperbolic comparison.
A problem for you because you want people to agree with your personal opinions. But not a problem for people like me who have a different opinion. But your main problem is thinking your subjective personal opinion is objectively true.
I farmed in wrath to get my dragon mount and when I got it I hated it. Those huge wings and body made it hard to see when I was flying and made the game less fun. So I went back to the basic race mount. And yes, some people will farm or buy items that donât affect game play at all. But many people will not. Itâs a subjective personal decision. And since itâs only cosmetic it doesnât affect my game play. Iâd complain if the paid mount was faster or stronger than what one can get in game. I had a couple dozen mounts in BfA but I played with just the basic mount into BfA and it was just as good as paid mounts.
I called you stupid because you compared children begging their parents to pay for them to play wow for free with children who want to work in a mine because they donât want to starve to death. Itâs probably the most idiotic thing any one has posted on this forum, and thatâs saying a lot. Itâs not just more evidence that you donât know the difference between subjective and objective but that you donât understand ethics and philosophy at all.
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No I didnât.
Probably because you made it up.
You could just say âIâm too stupid to understand your metaphorâ and be done with it.
I wish you people would stop with this narrative. Itâs stupid. To try form some premise that if it doesnât affect player stats, then itâs an irrelevant component of the game and therefore thereâs nothing wrong with selling it for cash is idiotic. Many peopleâs prime motivation in the game is their characterâs aesthetic, and that aesthetic being a representation of things theyâve done in the game. To argue that this is irrelevant, and that monetizing it doesnât have a negative impact is truly smooth brain.
Not even bringing in the fact that it creates incentive for Blizzard to put its best aesthetic work behind a pay wall.
Or the fact that youâre creating a premise that the only things offered for cash are cosmetic, when you can clearly buy everything from levels to gold to renown to to gear to⌠and dying on the hill of âthese things donât matter that much in dragonflightâ can be dismissed by the fact that they offered a level boost / store mount for classic BC and brought the WoW token into Wrath.
Me, college educated adult, you, some 15 year old with 'tism that completely misunderstood my statement because you have room temp iq.
How can someone with an IQ above room temperature have this interpretation of what I said? I was comparing YOU to a person arguing in favor of child labor, asserting that it wasnât objective that child labor is bad, and pointing to the fact that thereâs at least one child who likes working⌠relating this to your prior statement that aggressive monetization isnât objectively bad, because thereâs people who like it.
How the *#$@ do you extract that iâm comparing starving children to children asking parents to play WoW from this, unless youâre literally mentally handicap?
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The unfortunate reality for you is I understood it perfectly and your metaphor was the most idiotic thing that has ever been posted on the forum.
Itâs irrelevant to me and to many others. You sound like the players who sit in a major city for hours on their rare mount because they think people are gawking in awe at them. The reality is most of us run on by without even noticing. I donât have to enable your delusions of grander or reward you for an accomplishment thatâs irrelevant to me.
I get that your personal subjective opinion is that it has a negative impact on your game if some players buy a cosmetic item that doesnât affect game play. What you donât get is most players donât care. Thereâs lots of parts of the game that some players care about and other players donât. A lot of players donât even do transmog. So many hated wpvp, even though they claimed they wanted it, that blizzard added warmode. A lot of people never do pet battles. Itâs a shame that some part of the game has been ruined for you because of paid cosmetic items but I and most players donât care about it at all. Thatâs the difference between objective and subjective.
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I retired at 62, bought 10 acres of land in southern Arizona, and I read. What was the last non fiction book you read? Youâre completely clueless about ethics, morality, logic and rational debate. You should read:
The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values
a 2010 book by Sam Harris, in which he promotes a science of morality and argues that many thinkers have long confused the relationship between morality, facts, and science. He aims to carve a third path between secularists who say morality is subjective (moral relativists) and religionists who say that morality is dictated by God and scripture.
Hereâs the difference between you and me. I can use logic to rationally explain why child labor is objectively wrong and you canât, because you have no intellectual foundation to support what ever moral instinct you might have or moral imperative given to you by authorities. And I can use logic to explain why paid cosmetic items is a subjective personal preference and you canât explain why you think itâs objective bad.
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no you didnât, hence your nonsensical explanation of what I said.
You probably donât even mythic raid.
No you wouldnât have seen me because Iâm playing classic.
every purchaseable mount, cosmetic, etc is an achievement award, drop, armor set, etc that wasnât added to the game and that didnât reward player engagement with the game. to say âplayers donât careâ when countless players grind their rears off in rated pvp for titles and mounts, do all of the âgloryâ raid achievements, etc is nonsense.
like bro you donât need to sit here and flex that youâre a casual and donât care about any of this stuff. iâd argue that catering to people who will eat garbage and exclaim âmmm mmm trashâ is a big reason quality has deteriorated.
how are you guys gonna sit here and keep arguing against the âonly cosmeticâ premise anyway, when earlier some of you were arguing that paying for gear and progression was okay because it âonly took 10 hoursâ to level up and gear for what people pay $60 for? on those grounds, what is the difference between paying to complete your weeklies?
Claims to be a successful adult
Says heâs intelligent because heâs read Sam Harris
Lol.
Iâm wholly convinced youâre a kid with the 'tism now, tipping your fedora while larping as an adult intellectual online. Itâs like you cannot help misrepresenting everything I said just for the chance to exclaim âdid you know iâm an atheist, atheist sam harris says objective morality cannot exist because thereâs no god to dictate what is objectivate andâ
Like bro what are you even on about. Claiming to be well versed in the philosophy of ethics and then citing Sam #$#@in Harris is the biggest example of âmidwitâ iâve seen in awhile.
There are not âsemanticsâ involved. They mean 100% different things.
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No, I never have. And I donât care if you have or that I havenât. I play for fun and what is most fun for me is leveling alts mostly in dungeons and some light raiding on one of my healers.
Itâs just a game I play for fun. I donât care about your flexing with your bis gear or shadowmourne as you parade around Dalaran. If I was gonna flex it wouldnât be about a video game. Iâd flex about my degree in botany, that I play trumpet, flute, oboe, and guitar, that without sacrificing my personal life I was able to retire at 62 on 10 acres of land in the warm winter days of southern Arizona or that I read dozens of books every year.
I have never said players donât care. Iâve always used a qualifying adjective. Some players, many players etc. So youâre quoting me out of context because of ignorance or because you want to lie in a vane attempt to win a argument?
Some players do and some players never pvp at all. I get that youâre such a loser that these accomplishment mean the world to you but itâs not an objective value. Itâs a subjective personal value. And I and many players donât care about the subjective value you put on these things.
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Failure to recognize that âobjectiveâ and âliteralâ are frequently used to describe things that are âwidely held beliefâ or âobservably evidentâ and insisting that this does not meet the âliteralâ definition of objective and literal IS in fact an argument over semantics, and something people with the 'tism would be hung up about arguing rather than addressing the actual point of the topic.
Oh please - Nice ChatGPT response.
Next time, if you want to sound all superior and smart⌠clean up your run-on sentences.
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Every one who reads is now laughing at you. Harrisâ book is his attempt to discredit moral relativism and posits why and how an objective morality does exist. Itâs so common for the uneducated to mock what they havenât read or studied. Youâve actually accused and derided him for saying what is the exact opposite of what heâs actually said and written
You should admit that the most you might know of Harris is critiques of him in radical left wing articles. That youâre the actual pretender here. Youâve never seen him at all. Some people here have no clue what weâre talking about but some of us see right through your pretense to the uneducated buffoon you are.
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