Except they did have data prior to 1.12, maybe not back to 1.0 but they could have gone back if they’d wanted.
Except it does apply. The same issues would still be valid regardless of what data is available.
They said ‘slightly before’. What would be the point in going back and going through a patch ‘slightly before’ when you don’t have the whole patch cycle? They made the right decision with just going with 1.12 if that’s basically all they had.
What issues are you talking about? Issues of what?
The dev water cooler pretty clearly addressed that. There were many mechanics and game play elements that were added/updated over the course of the expansion for various reasons. Having earlier data doesn’t change that those would be missing/broken.
Addressed what? What exactly did they address you keep acting like it says they chose that version because there would have been these massive bugs otherwise when it didn’t even remotely hint at that. Also, stop referring to an old article that has since been updated with the video I posted. They. Didn’t. Have. The. Data.
Except they did have data for at least some earlier versions.
And yes it clearly addressed that 1.12 had the final version of classic with all the content available and all the various class balance fixes etc… that had been made over the course of classic.
None of that would change even if they had perfect versions of every patch since launch. And applies just as much so to TBC even if some of the mechanics changes were less extreme.
My dude how do you not understand this what does having a patch ‘slightly before’ 1.12 have anything to do with this?
I’m going to try and walk you through this. There is two ways they could basically do ‘authentic’ experiences. They can go patch by patch or they could pick one static patch and gate content. If they do not have all the patches, or at least most of them from start to finish, there is no way you can choose the first option. It’s out of the question. So you then have to go with the second choice, so OBVIOUSLY they are going to choose the last patch because like they said, it’s the most ‘complete’ and then they can artificially gate the content going forward.
Classic had the issues of not having these patches, tbc doesn’t.
Once again, this has nothing to do with ‘bugs’ I honestly have no idea where you are coming up with this, they didn’t mention this, they didn’t hint at it, they said nothing about this, you literally just made it up.
None of us know what “slightly before” means. And also invalidates your opinion they didn’t have prior data.
And I’m not even talking about bugs now am I? I’m talking about how various mechanics naturally evolved over the course of the expansion as various issues were discovered and fixed.
Having earlier data doesn’t matter in the slightest in regards to that.
Are you trying to act like ‘slightly before’ could possibly mean anything other than what it’s described to be? If they say slightly before, you can easily assume that MOST of the patches are gone, and that’s being generous.
Yes you are talking about bugs because that’s literally what started this off you need to not do this if you even want to have a meaningful conversation with someone, if you don’t believe it’s about bugs anymore you need to state “Ok that’s was a silly thing to say the bugs have nothing to do with it”
Also
What do you mean, use specifics when you say ‘various X’ you need to be specific, what do you mean, what various issues that were discovered what various things need to be fixed. I can not have a conversation with you if there is no basis.
Except that even in the video you posted they explicitly mentioned that just using earlier version would reintroduce bugs that were later fixed.
So you think that in vanilla and BC there were no class balance or mechanics changes? And all they did was release new content on a schedule.
Lol maybe go read some patch notes, those are still around, if you want the basics of the many many things that change patch over patch.
Time stamp it because I think I know what you’re talking about and it has nothing to do with the patch.
Also, wait so now you are back to the bugs? So you said it was because the bugs, then you said you never mentioned bugs, but now you’re back to bugs? Which is it?
I never said there wasn’t I’m asking you to be specific about what you’re mentioning so I can comment on it. When you say “various things” I can’t comment on it because it means nothing to me.
So your issue is class balance and mechanic changes that came throughout the patches? You can’t be serious. You understand how imbalanced the classes and mechanics were in 1.12 right? There is no issue with these types of balances because we KNOW what they are going to be, we aren’t asking for a completely balanced tbc experience, we are asking for the tbc experience as close to what it was.
Blizzard does not give a crap about what balance issues come up with, obviously, otherwise they would have never released classic. So if this is your ‘various’ issues that you are talking about, you need to drop it now LOL
The details don’t particularly matter just that they happened but since you don’t understand that a quick example. Class revamps in vanilla, major class balance changes that occured over the course of vanilla.
Then go read the dev water cooler again, they specifically mention improved class balance in 1.12 vs earlier patches as a major plus of using 1.12. Nowhere did i say that they aimed for perfect, they aimed for the best it was during that particular era. For classic that was 1.12 for TBC that be the final patch before the wrath pre patch.
MOst guilds did 2 Kael kills to get their entire raid attuned and never went back. Vashj was differrent as you were gearing up for Kael so killing everythign in SSC and TK everyweek made sense but once you moved onto tier 6 you stopped SSC aswell.
No. Just keep the attunements as is. They probably won’t require attunement to TK or SSC as those werent a thing in 2.4.3 but BT and MH attunement will still be a thing.
Yes and all of these things are irrelevant as mentioned above. We understand the imbalances otherwise we would be asking for warriors to be nerfed in vanilla. These ‘changes’ are a non-issue, it’s part of the tbc experience and it’s only a good thing to ask for. Otherwise you’ll have things like the end of 1.12 where classes are way overtuned for the earlier raids which is an even bigger issue than having an imbalance that was present during the time of the raids spotlight.
I’m ignoring every single thing you say that is referencing the old news of dev watercooler. If you aren’t sticking to the updated news and words of blizzard and clinging to the old outdated news there’s no reason to continue this conversation because it’s clear you are just aiming to win the argument and not aiming to be correct.
So basically you just don’t understand that regardless of whether they can or cannot use an earlier version there are very good reasons why they would pick the last version anyways?
You are completely ignoring the updated news. These patches did not exist, they couldn’t go back and run the patches through with the raids of the time because they were not there. You are sticking to them saying “it’s the most complete version” months before they came out and said “you know what we just didn’t have these patches”.
And go ahead and speak in circles again and say “WE DON’T KNOW WHAT SLIGHTLY BEFORE MEANS” and I will just lead you to this again.
You are completely ignoring they offered reasons for using 1.12 that have nothing to do with whether they could or could not use an earlier version.
You are operating under the assumption that an earlier version would have been better when I offered you a clear example of why there were perfectly good reasons to use 1.12 Reasons which would apply to TBC just as much as they did classic.
Which is completely voided once they admitted they couldn’t do those anyway. Like I said, they can glam up their explanation all they want to, once they admitted they didn’t have the patch data from beforehand they INSTANTLY are forced into a scenario where patch by patch releases are out the window.
So again, they must go into the static patch option, in which case of COURSE they are going to use the last patch, obviously, there’s no other way to do it.
I’m not saying an earlier version would have been better for a static environment. I’m saying a patch by patch release is possible for tbc. Yes, if they chose to go the static route of COURSE they will choose the last patch. What I’m telling you is, that this is not the case for TBC where they are forced to choose the static version, vanilla they did.
They might have been able to do more had they dug through their backups more.
It sounds more like once they got 1.12 they saw no need to try more.
It doesn’t sound like that at all, once again this is something you’re making up in your head and claiming as fact lol.
They straight up said “we looked back and only found 1.12 and slightly before”
Not sure how you took that as “they could have searched harder, it’s probably there, they just gave up once they got 1.12”
Honestly I shouldn’t have to explain how nonsense of a statement this is.
You also have to consider their recordkeeping of commits to source. I remember reading a few of the early blue posts of classic (when people were complaining of things), that they had problems fixed in vanilla marked as resolved during TBC. Meaning that they did in fact fix said issue during vanilla, but the dev just failed to write it as resolved until sometime in 2.0. This however doesn’t mean they backported a TBC change of vanilla content when creating classic. Just simply a lack of good records.
Blizzard obviously since around that time transitioned to better tracking of what they have done to source and creating archives. But I would bet that it has no doubt taught them how to better read and where to look for older commits, if they go down the possible tbc/wrath legacy routes. I would not be surprised if tbc or wrath has the true patch progression people were looking for in classic. But knowing blizz (and less of a headache), they’ll just do 2.4.3 and 3.3.5.