I am of the opinion of both of those fact, yes. And I do understand how it can come off as annoying if people believe this is dishonest. However, I have provided plenty of backing for why those are honest opinions. I’m not one to just making things up without any references, and I’m fully willing to admit when I’m wrong if people can cite when I’m wrong. But this hasn’t been the case for these two facts.
There’s one Warcraft III mission, “The Spirits of Ashenvale”, where the Horde wins a fight against the Night Elves before Cenarius gets involved. There’s another Warcraft III mission, “Enemies at the Gate”, after Cenarius was killed where the Night Elves win against the Horde and Alliance working together (Rest in peace Duke Lionheart. You didn’t deserve that). So both sides won one fight without Cenarius’ involvement.
Hey, I didn’t write Warcraft III. I didn’t make it so Kael’thas didn’t teleport when the caravan was overwhelmed and Tyrande saved him instead, nor why he didn’t when escaping from Garrithos and Lady Vashj opened the portal for him instead. He just didn’t.
He sent a young Druid named Teshara to fly after the fleet when he found out about the attack. He himself went to Ashenvale to meet the Horde’s army and support the remaining fighters and civilians that took up arms, yeah. The Horde’s feint worked perfectly for the Horde. But the Horde isn’t pulling that kind of tactic off again at Darkshore, and with Nathanos saying the Alliance is winning on all fronts, it is unlikely the Horde has an army twelve times the size of the Night Elf and Alliances forces at Darkshore just sitting around and waiting in Ashenvale now.
The horde really won’t need that sizable of a force to beat the night elves the night elves won’t be able to use a bottle neck strategy in the offense as effectively they did in the defense. The night elves would in fact need the larger force as they are the ones pressing the assault.
I do not speculate on hypothetical tactics used in future battles, as it is rather pointless. They will be whatever Blizzard wants them to be, even if they literally don’t make any sense (see catapults). I can only comment on the lore we have that is current.
I’m not speculating I’m stating what happened the night elves erected a wisp wall that bottle necked the horde on the narrow front that is darkshore and then set up their defense along a raging river this using both terrain and artificial means to produce a bottle neck. By bottle necking the horde army they were able to demenish the effectiveness of the army by preventing manuvering and keeping the enemy army to a easy to deal with front that they could hit from a fortified position. This isn’t speculating this is what happened it was a brilliant on the fly move that prevented the war of the thorns from being a blow out. When the night elves go on the offense from darkshore however the situation will be reversed and the horde could most likely contain the alliance across the very same front.
Yes, however, depending on how you want to interpret the quests and events of the Darkshore Warfront, the Night Elves have already taken Darkshore back without the use of a bottle neck.
And of course, our two statements on the current state of the war, which would include Darkshore:
Halford Wyrmbane says: My king, the attack on Zuldazar was a resounding success.
Master Mathias Shaw says: The Horde is losing on all fronts. The Alliance should achieve victory in a matter of weeks.
Nathanos Blightcaller says: My queen…reports are coming in from all outposts. The Alliance is tightening its grip. Victory is within their grasp.
What I cannot speculate on is how another hypothetical fight in Ashenvale would go, since, well, it hasn’t happened, and for all we know Blizzard might not mention Ashenvale again this expansion outside of the Mission Tables.
Personally how I would like to see darkshore end is with the night elves reclaiming darkshore and being headed off at the border by nathanos and the entire bolstered forsaken army nathanos with a smug look on his face the night elves have obviously fallen into his trap say something smug to malfurion only to have malfurion reply with some line about how they had planned for this eventuality. And nathanos looks to the shore to see the combined fleet of silvermoon suramar the silver convenient the void elves and the other half of the night elf army all being telemancied and void rifted in from the ships in a throw back to the suramar campaign.
It’d make the most sense the blood elves can’t be happy with darkshore being the scourge invasion of quel’thalas 2.0 and by extension that’d include the void elves and high elves. The nightborne aren’t about to forget that the night elves helped liberate suramar from the legion and it’d enforce a precedent set in legion that whenever elves face a problem they can’t handle alone they band together. Also I can’t be the only one who wants to see that smug look wiped off nathanos’s face seriously Im at the point where if I know hes the voice of a daily I quickly mute my computer.
I have also always wanted a reunification of the Elves because of Aurora Skycaller and Fiora Longears, who I had the pleasure of encountering on my main here back in Classic.
Aurora Skycaller was once outside of Quel’Lithien Lodge and longed for the unification of the Elven races - most likely specifically the Night Elves and the High Elves - and a High Elf named Fiora Longears who tried to make connections between Theramore and the Night Elves of Auberdine. With the acceptance of the Highborne Night Elf mages to Darnassus and Night Elf society as a whole; the outreaching to and embracing of both the Draenei and the Gilnaeans by the Night Elves; the High Elves’ strong ties to the Alliance through Theramore, Quel’Danil Lodge, Farstrider Lodge, Allerian Stronghold, and The Silver Covenant; and to a lesser extent the High Elves connecting with the Night Elves such as High Elves and Night Elves working together during the Battle for Mount Hyjal against Archimonde, as well as working and living together at Allerian Stronghold and with The Silver Covenant in Northrend and Pandaria, and Vereesa Windrunner attending Malfurion Stormrage and Tyrande’s wedding: the seeds are all there to bring the Elven races steps closer to being one again. One such High Elf seemingly has already taken the invitation, as the High Elf Huntress Davinia served under the Darnassus banner in the campaign against the Horde in Stonetalon.
Add that with your points about the Blood Elves and the Nightborne, and I think it would be amazing if we could actually have an Elven army done right, instead of rather pointlessly wasted in a timelock spell like they ended up being in Suramar.
Hmm … Nathanos likes being more on the snarky side, but I like the premise (however, since I actually do like that curmudgeon I don’t want him to die; seeing him badmouth EVERYONE on equal standing is enjoyable to me). Dude is the embodiment of every old man yelling “Get off my lawn”, its great!
That being said … I’m curious how the undead NEs are going to stay linked into this. I can’t imagine them staying as “Totally Not Mind Controlled at All Guys” patsies of the Banshee Queen. I’m also curious about why the sudden interest of Blizz in Velonara? While she doesn’t have a lot of characterization, she’s always been a bit … odd … for a Dark Ranger; seemingly taking jobs that keep her at a distance from Sylvanas (like WoD, she volunteered for the Dreanor campaign AND serve the Horde commander, rather than return to Sylvie after her mission was complete). Even stranger … didja notice Blizz deliberately had her be the last Farstrider to fall at Deathholme in the BE heritage quest? And now she has a quest of her own in SM? Its interesting… who knows how big this elven reunion could get lol!
That doesnt necessarily mean the bulk remains, its likely that the main piece of nelf fan service (the darkshore warfront) was released sooner rather than later because of the backlash from Teldrassil. They tossed in the night warrior eyes as an apology.
The fact that Tyrande was desperate enough to conduct the Night Warrior ritual (after pleading for immediate aid from the Alliance and being rebuffed) suggests that they dont have the “bulk” of their forces available anymore. I mean a night elf army isnt exactly crucial in this xpac.
Velonara also doesn’t have the most positive take on Sylvanas when you talk to her at the Trueshot Lounge:
I fell in battle as the mad prince cut a black scar through the land I loved. But at least I was at peace, I suppose. For a time. Until the Banshee Queen pulled me back from beyond and damned my soul into her service.
It’s very much Sentinel and Warden inspired. Right? And Wardens are, as we know, the keepers of vengeance. And while they were crated very specifically they’re still, you know, at their core a Night Elf institution. The concept of wielding vengeance as a weapon. And I felt that actually factored into this. This was just my feeling in putting this story together. If they are capable of being empowered by vengeance, then that means they’re more powerful after they lost Teldrassil than they were during the fight of Teldrassil.
Terran Gregory: Kind of more recently at Blizzcon we revealed the "Terror of Darkshore" cinematic which was really exciting revisiting the Night Elves. You know, in all these years I'd never gotten to put Malfurion in a cinematic, right? And so, there was a lot of build up, a lot of expectation. I feel like the audience was definite after the events of Teldrassil feeling like the Night Elves needed to bear their fangs again. And that was principally the goal going into that cinematic, right? Is that we wanted to go back, we wanted to revisit those classic Warcraft III Night Elves. Reminded of their ferocity, that in the dark of the forest we should really be afraid of them. And that scene was a lot of fun to take, to bring through its paces.
Steve Danuser: Yeah, that was a great moment that really set the stage, again, for kind of setting up that new warfront that's in Tides of Vengeance of the fight over Darkshore, and it really got to help us introduce not only, you know, some gravel on Malfurion there, but, as you play through stuff, a new side for Tyrande, as well. And- to really- you know, it's- When you consider all that the Night Elves went through, as characters, seeing their home, not just taken from them, but burned to cinders, it was tough, and so we wanted to show how they were reacting to that. So we brought in, if you play through the Darkshore Warfront and the quests leading up to that, you see this murderers row* of great Night Elf characters coming back and seeing their different perspectives on how they're reacting to things. Seeing some of that payoff between Tyrande and Maiev after all these years and all this stuff in their background to see them kind of acknowledge that. But it was a great opportunity to, like you say, put some teeth back on the Night Elves, show their reactions to things. And, we thought, well, you know, that's a great moment. We have this transformation of Tyrande, that energy that she's calling upon, this dark side of Elune, how that infuses the other Night Elves in the warfront, hey, why not give that, as an option, to players. Allow them to tap into that power as well.
Terran Gregory: Character customization, yes.
Steve Danuser: Character customization.
Terran Gregory: And a lot of people were interested online in how exactly the players came to have the black eyes.
Steve Danuser: It is.
Terran Gregory: The darkened eyes.
Steve Danuser: Yes, the darkened eyes. And I think that speaks to the power of that ritual. This ancient ritual that Tyrande taps into - again, sorry, spoilers, but - Tyrande taps into that ritual, that calling upon- it's not even calling upon, she's demanding, she's like, "Give me this power. You turned your back on us, as those 'so-and-so's' took our home from us. Now you owe us. Give me this power." And that so infused her that it could change those Elves. So we wanted to give players that opportunity, to say, "You know what, I'm part of that, too. I stand with Tyrande," and show that off in their characters.
Terran Gregory: And if you'll notice at the warfront, all the NPCs that are Night Elves actually have the darkened eyes. So there's definitely a sense that, in proximity, fighting on behalf of the darkened element of Elune under the darkened moon, that's what happens. And whether or not the player has customized themselves, that of course is player choice, but I think in the story sense that any Night Elf that's fighting on behalf of Elune in that confrontation their eyes would be darkening.
*I was unfamiliar with the phrase “murderers row,” and looking it up it turns out to be the nickname given to the battling line up of the 1927 New York Yankees that were considered at the time to be one of the best line ups in history, and now the phrase is used for any particularly successful or powerful groups of people.
If you look at my first posts on this thread, youll see me mention that that their military is now a small group of highly trained individuals struggling to keep things together.
I imagine this happening after windrunner turns the tables on the alliance again with some over the top cinematic where Derek kills Katherine in her sleep while jaina is in stormwind planning the final assault on the horde in kalimondor it cuts to the docks in boralleus the ashvane trade ships pulling up in the dead of night everyone is convinced it is just a routine market ship it cuts inside the ship is filled to the brim with dark rangers and the bells begin to ring as everyone realizes what Derek did the rangers burst out seize the docks and burn the fleet in the harbor. It cuts to silvermoon. Rommath bursting into the throne room to confront loth they argue about darkshore and rommath asks him what makes him better than arthas. Long pause loth replies with there is nothing they can do even if they wanted to alleria enters with her sister and thalyseria ( misspelled I know) it cuts to stormwind the leaders talking a messenger bursts In With an urgent message for jaina about the attack the leaders are stunned hope is lost the forsaken are already amassing on the border of darkshore. Then enters zappi boy with a message from saurfang. Then basically we play the filler of the rebellion and alliance losing on all fronts as windrunner raises the dead on the battle fields. Then we see the tauren making there move the elves the alliance and the orcs to push her out of kalimondor only to find that she had already left org then we do our final raid in the ruins of undercity as everything else plays out