I was wrong about Kyrian being good written

Some weeks ago i made a thread about Kyrian being really good written and maldraxxus not.

Looks like i was mistaken.

Kyrian had the premise of Devos finding a flaw in system, if we erase our minds how the !#%!#% did we suposed to know the power of the maw was flooding other realities.
Being against the system is exactly what lead Devos into the truth.

But now you are telling me Helya was behind Forsworn? Seriously?

Helya is not persuasive nor any kind of strategist character, she scream like a warrior and her doings are all impulsive.

Helya is just a giant that spawns in the middle of everything “ALL YOU WILL DIE HAHAHAHAHA” and now you telling me she is a genious manipulating bastion?

Really bad written and a sad end for Kyrian (which starts phenomenal).

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Yeah
 the Forsworn aren’t the best written antagonists.

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They are suposed to be.
Devos brief story surpasses by far years of Helya.

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i just picked it for memory wiping and sparkly angels
so far i didnt really feel like we did much, we collected some mcguffins
i want to wipe some more memories away and erase sadness

Not that I don’t agree that there is a lot of weirdness with the motives of the Forsworn for joining the Jailor, but I’m not sure I get this. Devos has her realization moment at some point after Uther’s death. How long Uther remained in Bastion before she realized his soul was wounded, and it source, remains unclear. However, regardless of when it was there was no way it predated Helya. Who’s entire foundational history with Odyn dates back almost to the period of the raising of the Dragon Aspects.

Us not knowing when Helya joined the Jailor does not really muddy up that time line so much. What we don’t know is when Helya started getting involved in the affairs of Bastion.

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Not my covenant so I guess I don’t get the fuss, but wasn’t Helya’s whole deal that she was forced against her will to become Odyn’a first Valkyrie? Basically she’s been living in a pocket dimension for thousands of years, trying to figure out a way to get out of it (or punish Odyn for condemning her to that existence in the first place.)

Doesn’t it stand to reason that Helya would be a more recent acquisition to team Jailer and that part of the deal with Sylvanas back in Legion was to get Helya out of Helheim and put her in charge of the Kyrian her Valkyrie were based off of?

Did they do something with her other than that?

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If I were to give it a better swing at a story: have the Forsworn be the antagonists of Maldraxxus as the Maldraxxus forces retaliate by being the antagonists of Bastion?

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I am a big Helya booster and I hope she gets her revenge. At least justice against Odyn.

People have latched on to Devos, for what ever reason. She is OK, enough. I for one am glad to see more Helya stuff. I doubt she will ever get her justice. But I root for her. Odyn being alive and stomping about, with his own little slice of heaven, after what he did - it is one of story beats I find odious.

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The Foresworn could have been so much more interesting, but the writers straight up villain batted them.

Admittedly, Devos deciding the Path was flawed simply on the basis of Uther’s memories revealing an agent of the Maw existed in the mortal realms never made sense. Her knowing that changed
what exactly?

Nothing
except her arbitrarily deciding by herself to irrationally claim the soul of someone she had no previous connection to, entirely bypassing the Arbiter’s judgement, and straight up throwing him in the Maw on her own authority.

In doing so, she ironically proved the Archon’s point loud and clear about why it is so vitally important for the Kyrians to remain impartial concerning their duty. Because when Devos lost her objectivity, look what happened and then consider the grave consequences of what it could mean if the Foresworn had taken over Bastion
instead of impartial arbitrators, souls would have been at the mercy of emotionally unstable Kyrians who could act as judge, jury and executioner and arbitrarily cast them into the Maw just because they were having a bad day or because the soul had the misfortune of being someone they had reason to hate.

In my mind, Devos came across as excessively irrational and far more bloodthirsty than she had any right to be. Being sympathetic to Uther’s plight is one thing, using that as an excuse to suddenly decide on a violent full scale rebellion and a pact with the Jailer is entirely another.

There was no greater depth to the rest of the Foresworn either. Rather than being sympathetic, they became nothing more than violent a-holes who killed their kin when they weren’t forcibly brainwashing them to their side.

Devos didn’t even have a realistic much less altruistic goal for why she created the Foresworn. Take over Bastion by force and then
what exactly? Souls were still flowing to the Maw without the Arbiter and she didn’t seem to have any real plan for changing that situation.

The whole thing was just badly done and very much looked like a product of lazy writing.

In my mind, the Foresworn SHOULD have been sympathetic and, if anything, peaceful and misunderstood outcasts instead of violent rebels.

Uther could have still been the catalyst, but instead of violence, it should have triggered a deep introspection in Devos who began to lose faith in the Path and subsequently disappeared with Uther.

In time, more Kyrians could lose faith over the drought and the fact that souls are being condemned to the Maw despite being innocent and desertions could become more obvious, leading to the Archon becoming alarmed and fearful of what it presaged.

A lack of understanding of the Foresworn’s motives and opportunistic theft of anima and even souls could see the Archon reach the conclusion that they may have been tainted by the Jailer given Devos’ words and could present a threat to all of Bastion, leading her forces to start trying to track them down and crack down more harshly.

Into this volatile situation the player emerges onto the scene and is tasked by the Archon with finding out where the Forewsworn are hiding and bringing them and in particular Devos to her for judgement.

So the player gets to work following clues and trying to track down the Foresworn. As more of the story emerges from clashes between the Kyrian and Foresworn, it becomes increasingly obvious that while there is indeed something different about the Foresworn, they are not violent and seem to be trying to protect something.

After saving a Foresworn from an overzealous Paragon who promises retribution for your actions, your bravery and willingness to save their life sees the Foresworn decide to lead you to Devos herself in hopes her story, through you, might be able to bridge the gap between her and the Archon and preserve the ‘great work.’

You finally are brought before Devos and she thanks you for your kindness before telling her side of the story. She reveals that once she understood the crippling of the Arbiter and the Archon’s insistence on the Path, that her pity for Uther overrode her blind loyalty and she realized something had to be done.

She then reveals the truth of the ‘great work:’ she and other Ascended Foresworn have in fact been taking as many souls as they could save from the clutches of the Maw and bringing them to the massive lost Bastion city of Karro-beth.

To the player’s astonishment, she further reveals the city once functioned as the ‘purgatory’ of the Shadowlands as before the coming of the Arbiter a different system of judgement once held sway in a time long forgotten by most.

Souls used to be judged differently and via a slower process which necessitated such a vast city where the souls of those waiting to be judged would be housed. But upon the ascension of the Arbiter, Devos explains, such a process became unnecessary and so Karro-beth was abandoned and had been forgotten for eons
until Devos and Uther happened upon it during their exile.

Seeing the suffering of innocent souls condemned to the Maw shook Uther out of his sorrow and gave him, and by extension Devos, a new purpose: they would save as many souls as they could and recruit as many Kyrians to their cause to do so.

The theft of souls, equipment and anima was all in fact to safeguard and feed the many souls now under their care.

Just then, a Foresworn frantically runs into the chamber yelling about how the Kyrians found them as the doors burst open to reveal the Archon and her Paragons.

The Archon is at first astonished at the re-discovery of Karro-beth and the countless souls housed within, but quickly becomes furious and charges Devos with usurping the Arbiter’s authority and betraying her sacred duty to Bastion. Ignoring Devos’ protestations, she and the Paragons attack.

As the player, Devos and Uther battle against hopeless odds, the souls therein rise up and lend their anima to them, greatly empowering the 3 of them and enable them to fight back.

Finally, Devos stops the fight which surprises the Archon and makes her finally willing to listen. She continues to insist that the Path must be followed lest it lead the Kyrian into temptation as it once led the Jailer to abandon his duty, but Devos states that with the Arbiter crippled, the Kyrian have a responsibility to expand their duties.

They could no longer afford to simply play the role of impartial arbitrators, they HAD to do more. Seeing the many souls saved from the Maw by the Foresworn and moved by the passion of Devos as well as the support of the player and Uther, the Archon finally relents and concedes that perhaps blind loyalty to a system was in fact doing the Jailer’s work for him.

Returning with everyone to Elysian Hold, the Archon announces a new purpose for the Kyrian: they will now serve the cause of justice by ferrying souls to the now restored city of Karro-beth. No longer will they stand idly by, shackled by tradition, as the Jailer usurps the Arbiter’s judgement. Until the Arbiter can be restored, she says, the countless mortal souls will be ferried to the safety of Bastion until such time as they are once again ready for the Arbiter’s judgement.

She then praises the 3 of you, stating that it took the courage and selflessness of 2 mortals and a stubborn Paragon to show the Kyrian a new future and purpose and that their deeds will forever be remembered.

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You are mistaken here.
What does it change?

Jailer is imprisioned in the UNESCAPABLE maw.
Therefore everyone outside the maw is safe.
Devos briefly decides NOT follow her path, this is the ONLY REASON she discovers jailers powers ARE OUTSIDE the maw, if she followed her path she would’nt get that information.

This changes everything.

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It changed nothing in the mortal realm, her knowing about Arthas and Frostmourne had absolutely no bearing on what subsequently happened.

All it did was to convince her to throw a soul into the Maw and start a violent rebellion on the Jailer’s behalf.

Its a matter of time, she get the information that an agent of the maw was ruining azeroth, she informed Archon, archon doens’t give a !#%!% about that

What you mean “it changes nothing”
 she tried do something about, archon does not allow it.

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Yea lets reform Bastion and put an essential system into jeopardy to make it more palatable for forum posters.

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“Well written”

I can’t believe no one else saw the irony


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Helya was a Titan sorceress who had the ability to create pocket dimensions. She was the Titan’s best defense against things like the Elemental Lords and the Old Gods. She was Odyn’s right hand man at one point. Odyn became so obsessed with defeating Yogg-Saron (who corrupted his son) that he traded his eye to Meuh’zala to peer into the Shadowlands to see Bastion and obtain the ability to create ascended. He needed an Archon/First Valkyr and he asked Helya to do it but she refused and he turned her into a Valkyr against her will and to punish him she trapped him in a pocket dimension she created


it’s not entirely far fetched that she would take this hand she’d been dealt and rise up in the ranks of the Shadowlands to eventually take vengeance on Bastion for giving Odyn the knowledge to do what he did to her. The cruel irony is Helya has fallen to doing the exact thing she hated Odyn for: subjugating others.

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Oh I did. I try to be forgiving. I assumed it was a language thing - maybe they aren’t well versed in English.

I chuckled to myself. I considered remarking on that. But I decided to post about my Helya Fandom instead of a Grammar attack. Again, it could be a language thing.

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Honestly, Blizzard making Devos a pawn of the Jailer is such a disservice to such a beautifully design zone. They had beautiful place, with dark undertones of brainwashing and cult-like structure. They gave the Forsworn a VERY LEGITMATE AND UNDERSTANDABLE CAUSE. Spawned by Devos discovering a VERY REAL AND SIGNIFICANT FLAW TO THE WAY BASTION OPERATES. They have these two sides, both of which are flawed, neither being totally right or wrong about where they stand. There was such an opportunity here for such brilliant story telling. By aligning Devos with the Jailer for absolutely ZERO reason
 Just destroyed a really cool narrative that could have been.

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Agreed 100%.

Disagree a little here, we don’t know yet the reasons. What makes me sad is Devos becoming NOTHING and Helya being the “responsible” for forsworn.
They just threw bastion lore through the window.

I mean, didn’t we realize this from the beginning of Shadowlands, when she proclaims the Mawsworn to be hers, and so presumably the Forsworn were probably her deal as well?

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She does that because she’s a Viking It’s how they practise normal speech. But when she’s not screaming in range, she can be just as much the plotter as the Hel she’s named after.emphasized text

By the way the phrase should be “well written.”