Nope.
I asked if it was ethical.
Yeah, you’re so clueless you don’t even know what it means to propose a debate question. It’s sad to watch the slow steady decline of people’s intellect in large part due to the internet. Especially when we thought in the beginning it would bring about a new age of enlightenment. What optimistic fools we were back then.
You sound sorta depressed and angry.
Hence the name calling, I guess.
Would a hug help, friend?
Well I’m fighting a losing battle against the degradation of people’s intelligence and knowledge. Your poor level of intellectual development has now become the norm. I’ve watched as school and college curriculum has been dumbed down and seen the results of it in the graduates it produces. And again they’re dumbing down the SAT’s because students no longer are capable of successfully completing it. It seems the previous efforts to make the test easier didn’t fully take into account how far student’s intellect and knowledge had fallen.
The digital conversion is not the only change. The new test will take two hours to complete instead of three
Students can use calculators for the entire Math portion. Previous versions prohibited calculators in some sections.
The passages featured in the Reading section will be shorter and will include only one question each. They will more closely resemble works that students are taught in their classrooms.
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You should probably just take the hug.
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Just wait until those same people are your doctors or airline pilots, etc (of which some already are). I’ve already had this convo with my friend (who is a DR) and he is shaking his head at the level of people who just don’t understand that are coming out of the graduating classes now.
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Just lifetap.
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It’s not them.
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But do you really NEED an education when you have Google?
I had a physician for many years who retired and “sold” his practice to a younger doctor. After the third time I went for a consult and he simply opened up Google and started doing searches I decided it was time to find another physician.
I have nothing against research mind you, but I do sort of expect someone who has graduated from medical school to know SOMETHING about medicine. 
The future is not quite as bright as the songs would have you believe. 
Thanks.
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Are we really going with this? What, specifically, are they not teaching med students anymore? What, exactly, is not being taught in chemistry anymore? Or genetics or calculus or physics? I want to know specifically what they’re leaving off the table these days.
It’s incredibly difficult to get accepted into med school (some say too difficult and you’d better be sporting a 4.0 gpa to be taken seriously). Around 30,000 applicants are rejected every year. Medical School Prerequisites:
- Biology (one yearlong sequence with labs)
- Chemistry (two full academic years of study, including four lab-based classes, three of which are general chemistry, organic chemistry and biochemistry)
- English or another writing-intensive academic discipline (one full year)
- Genetics (at least one course)
- Math (one full year, ideally including courses in calculus and statistics)
- Physics (one yearlong sequence with labs)
- Psychology (at least one course)
- Sociology (at least one course)
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i guess it could have been worse-- you could have been in surgery and they broke out the book, “Surgery for Dummies” 
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I didn’t talk to any MD nor have I looked specifically at medical schools to see if standards are declining. But you seem to be acting as if you know what you’re talking about. If that’s so you should know that the problem is not that courses are dropped or that the course material isn’t fully covered. The most common cause of declining standards is grade inflation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_inflation
Data from the ACT show that, since 2016, and particularly during the COVID-19 restrictions, grade inflation in secondary schools has sharply accelerated. Most students taking the ACT have claimed to be labelled as “A” students by their high schools. Despite apparently impressive GPAs on ACT registration forms, the average scores have fallen since 2012.
Recent data leave little doubt that grades are rising at American colleges, universities and high schools. An evaluation of grading practices in US colleges and universities written in 2003, shows that since the 1960s, grades in the US have risen at a rate of 0.15 per decade on a 4.0 scale. The study included over 80 institutions with a combined enrollment of over 1,000,000 students.
Harvard graduate and professor Harvey Mansfield is a longtime vocal opponent of grade inflation at his alma mater. In 2013, Mansfield, after hearing from a dean that “the most frequent grade is an A”, claimed to give students two grades: one for their transcript, and the one he thinks they deserve. He commented, "I didn’t want my students to be punished by being the only ones to suffer for getting an accurate grade
There is some truth to that. However that doesn’t affect SAT scores or final exams such as United States Medical Licensing Examination or the bar. You have one cutoff number and either you reach that or you don’t. Nearly every profession requires practicums and a final exam with a cutoff number. You have to pass an exam to get your license if you want to teach Kindergarten, for instance.
To become a commercial pilot, you have to have an instrument rating, a multi engine rating, and a flight instructor certificate. All these steps including your private pilot’s license require practical exams. After obtaining those, you need to have 1,500 hours and pass a final practical test with an FAA examiner to earn your commercial pilot’s license.
Becoming a doctor or pharmacist and so on isn’t a matter of getting good grades. A prospective employer may or may not care what your gpa was, but practicums and final exams sure don’t. You have to actually show that you know your stuff. And they still teach that stuff,
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Well I think it does. As grade inflation has increased standards are lowered and less is expected of students. And SAT scores have been steadily decreasing despite several attempts to make the test easier. Many colleges have added remedial English for freshman as the average student didn’t have the reading and writing skills formally expected and were unable to do the college level work incoming students were formally able to do. It’s easy to see how declining standards led to easier curriculum led to grade inflation to make it appear that lower achievement didn’t exist led to lower SAT scores led to easier SATs again to disappear the lower level of achievement over the decades. But it is less easy to see it happening in colleges.
As far as I know while there is some talk of going to a pass/fail system medical licensing tests still grades so the cutoff number is just the minimum standard. Putting aside how the cutoff number and the test might have been adjusted over the years the spread of the grades would tell us something about declining standards. The spread would likely be a bell curve. I suspect that that bell curve has become steeper over the years will less people at the extreme and more people clustered around the cutoff point, the minimum standard.
I haven’t seen data related to that but with grade inflation in even high level elite colleges that would be the most logical hypothesis. Is it your view that grade inflation has no effect on student achievement or what effect do you think it has?
| Year | Average SAT Score (Math) | Average SAT Score (Reading) |
|---|---|---|
| 2017 | 527 | 533 |
| 2018 | 531 | 536 |
| 2019 | 528 | 531 |
| 2020 | 523 | 528 |
| 2021 | 528 | 533 |
| 2022 | 521 | 529 |
| 2023 | 508 | 520 |
This year the scores dropped. But all these scores are still better than the SAT scores in the 90’s. BTW, the SAT’s have changed, they always do over time. But that doesn’t mean they’re easier. The ARE much easier to prepare for than past decades.
Last year a five-point increase in the passing standard was implemented in the cutoff for The United States Medical Licensure Examination. That’s the opposite of getting easier. At any rate, setting a cutoff number is the way it’s always been.
That depends on the school. MIT has a reputation for grade deflation, and for being one of the most rigorous and stressful learning institutions.
In the end, you actually have to show you know your stuff. 
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https://www.newsweek.com/heres-every-change-sat-introducing-2024-1672689
The digital conversion is not the only change. The new test will take two hours to complete instead of three
Students can use calculators for the entire Math portion. Previous versions prohibited calculators in some sections.
The passages featured in the Reading section will be shorter and will include only one question each. They will more closely resemble works that students are taught in their classrooms.
All else being equal is a 2 hour test easier or harder than a 3 hour test? Being able to use a calculator for all the math portion easier or harder? Is reading longer passages with more questions easier or harder?
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/opinion-grade-inflation-teaches-students-we-dont-mean-what-we-say/2023/11
This fall, ACT released a new study tracking high school grades over the past decade—finding a dramatic bout of grade inflation, even as the National Assessment of Educational Progress showed steady decline in academic performance.
The National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) administered the NAEP long-term trend (LTT) reading and mathematics assessments to 13-year-old students from October to December of the 2022–23 school year. The average scores for 13-year-olds declined 4 points in reading and 9 points in mathematics compared to the previous assessment administered during the 2019–20 school year. Compared to a decade ago, the average scores declined 7 points in reading and 14 points in mathematics.
Of course it depends on the school. I never claimed all schools are the same. But there is ample evidence that many elite schools, as well as most non elite schools are experiencing grade inflation. Here’s some information about grade inflation at Harvard. That you’re able to find an exception doesn’t prove anything and doesn’t answer the question: Do you claim grade inflation has no effect or what effect do you think it has? You’re avoiding directly addressing my points
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2001/2/5/mansfield-to-give-two-grades-pstudents/
Mansfield is one of Harvard’s most ardent opponents of grade inflation. “I don’t want to continue punishing students for a situation that is not their fault,” he said. “I’ve had to adjust my grades upward over the years, and the strain on my conscience has become too great.”
Mansfield has asked the registrar to calculate the average grade in all of Harvard’s humanities and science courses. He will then use that figure to adjust the grades in his course to fit the Harvard distribution. “The more or less official grades I give to the registrar will be based on the system of Harvard’s inflated grades,” Mansfield said.
Here is a study of 200 colleges experiencing grade inflation.
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2013/12/26/why-college-grade-inflation-is-a-real-problem-and-how-to-fix-it
Grade inflation isn’t just a problem at Harvard. A recent study of 200 colleges and universities found that more than 40 percent of all grades awarded were in the A range.
Here is a study showing a link to grade inflation and lower study time.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1465-7295.2009.00245.x
College grade point averages in the United States rose substantially between the 1960s and the 2000s. Over the same period, study time declined by almost a half. This paper uses a 12-quarter panel of course evaluations from the University of California, San Diego to discern whether a link between grades and effort investment holds up in a micro setting. Results indicate that average study time would be about 50% lower in a class in which the average expected grade was an “A” than in the same course taught by the same instructor in which students expected a “C.”
There is a lot to unpack here and you are combining several things into one.
Your overall message of society seeing a general decline in intelligence and knowledge is the main point with the Internet being what you believe to be a possible primary cause.
For starters on that one I would have to disagree. The ability to instantly communicate with the world and to connect with all types of people has allowed us to see the world at its best and worst. With billions of people there are just simply enough willing to say ignorant, rude, and bigoted type stuff to make the whole look like they are not worth bothering saving.
On the point of SAT tests many of those changes have been made to help curb elitism out of pay to play entrance into college since they literally mean nothing in society other than how well you take a timed test and they have been mared by scandal for decades.
On grades since 2019 you have to take into account COVID and the impact that many students (especially low income) faced for almost two years. These effects were, and will be, felt for several years obviously. To not acknowledge that is simply disingenuous.
Now with all that said I will state that the public school system in the United States is in serious disrepair and it is disgusting. We here have failed our youth and are failing our future generations.
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The 2023 SAT shift is more than just a cosmetic change; it aims to align better with high school curricula and prepare students for the digital age. From reducing the number of sections to introducing more direct questions and shorter test durations, the new SAT format makes the exam more rigorous and relevant.
Is the new SAT format easier or more difficult than the old one?
Answers- Opinions vary, but the new format aims to be more rigorous and more aligned with high school curricula. This could make it challenging in different ways than the old format.
https://tinyurl.com/3vwfbx7w
As far as grade inflation is concerned, sure this is a concern. And it’s nothing new.
ACROSS the nation, student grade point averages have risen steadily since the early 1960’s. Suspicions that this was occurring were confirmed by a study of 134 institutions of higher learning in 1973 (Juola, 1974). Since then concern over the phenomenon has become widespread, and the latest figures for the 1975-76 academic year show the
first decline in over a decade
This is an abstract from 1977. Grade inflation: causes and cures
Yes! When they started making M+s, with them being timed and having loot based on speed, it really degraded the community to me even more. Speed does not equate to skill.
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Yea most groups don’t wait for mana users, I bring mana potions with me and use them constant for that reason…I get very surprised when they do stop though.