There isn’t any “appropriation”.
Who is more casual
The mythic raider playing 10 hours a week
Or
The guy doing world quests for 30 hours a week?
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Honestly this guy is more “casual” when it comes to the game.
The mythic raider playing 10 hours/week is putting more time into a ton of things out of the game that nevertheless still involve the game. Reading, strats, and probably putting hours in at their job that essentially translate to WoW progress by route of tokens.
Other dude is just bumbling around smiling about everything they come across WITHIN the game.
It sounds like what the OP ultimately wants is the ability to spec into a single talent build that can accommodate all forms of content. Not the cookie cutter spec, but a simple spec that will do decently, and even better in the hands of a decent player.
If I’m not mistaken, wanna say shadowlands had some sort of this mentality. At the very least, demon hunters did.
Momentum almost always simmed higher, but only by a few %’s. So virtually everyone would just play Demonic, especially during progression, because it was a far simpler build.
Conceptually I don’t mind this, but I also think it’s a different game now in Dragonflight. I guess you could just add a choice on a talent node that provides an active ability or a passive talent that just causes x ability(ies) to cleave? I don’t think that would cost too much developer time in implementation, but I also think the theoretical performance of that talent choice should be a decent chunk lower than the active ability. Of course, that’s difficult to balance.
i’ve never been a world first raider but i did raid CE some years back and nobody i knew of was doing anything with tokens except using them to buy game time. i think the “everyone who raids mythic spends 20 million gold on BOEs every tier!!!” thing is nonsense for all but the very top groups.
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Yeah, that’s part of my complaint. The design is so fixated on AoE encounter spam, but many AoE rotations are simply less fun than the single target for the spec.
This is also part of my complaint. It’s hard to find a class that’s fun on both sides of the table. I love single target Arcane, but I dislike its AoE set. I like the AoE for Frost Mage, but the single target is way too dependent on procs and cooldowns.
I haven’t found a class that’s truly great in both areas since around Legion.
So then what’s your source? Where are you getting the definition from?
One could just as easily say the same to you. As I said, you’re not more important just because you play M+ and do raids. We both pay the same sub fee.
I said mythic.
You’re free to think that, just as I’m free to continue asking for it.
Remember when Classic was never going to happen?
World quest guy, 100%
Yeah, this is pretty much exactly what I’m saying. I don’t want it to be optimal, I just want it to exist so I don’t feel pressured to swap rotations every time a tank pulls more than two or three mobs.
“Some years back people were spending additional hours on the game for free game time instead of working an hour at their job to buy progress.”
That’s fair.
I understand your point, but obviously in dungeon content, the grand majority of your overall dps is going to come from aoe’ing mobs.
Maybe a few select utility talents might change depending on the affixes and/or the dungeon, but generally speaking, your damaging talent build should always be aoe centric in dungeon content. I just have a single talent build called “m+”, and I use it for every dungeon, again maybe swapping a utility talent in my class tree here and there.
You’re not swapping talent builds every other pull 
. You spec into the talent build that’s gonna provide you the best overall dps because you want your group to complete the dungeon as quickly as possible. In lower content, it doesn’t really matter, so I don’t fundamentally see a problem with having alternative builds that are less effective. My sole complaint about that would be balancing and tuning. Opportunity cost is a very real thing in developing WoW
100% disagree.
That’s an assumption and largely incorrect.
Even if you were to use OPs definition doing that can be very relaxing.
I watch a fight from whatever class I’m playing PoV on the fight and look at our raid leaders raid plan for specific notes on our strat and that’s it.
You aren’t playing a game casually if you’re spending 30 hours a week doing it.
It’s why casual mythic raiding is a thing.
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Well, now you’re citing hours committed to the game as justification the player isn’t casual. Isn’t that argument self-defeating?
Also, couldn’t a few mythic + carries basically pay for a wow token? If you’ve got a month to complete a few dungeon and/or raid carries, I don’t think that’d take too much time to accumulate enough wealth to buy wow tokens several times over
You should try google.
The difference is I do content where balancing matters and you don’t.
Comparing dumbing the game down so anyone can play it to classic is a joke.
Infact they actually brought talents back doubling down on not dumbing the game down.
And you’re 100% wrong.
Wut? lol
No, others are citing hours committed to the game, they are just only counting the hours they are logged in and ignoring the others.
Also…
Guys, add your forum hours to your count, then get back to me.
Yeah, and even that’s a fairly new concept that has come about in the latter half of the game’s life. Dungeon design didn’t always have so much mandatory movement and speedrun strategies as a baseline. M+ is a relatively new invention, and even raids have gotten way more movement centric and frantic over the years.
As a person who grew up with the simpler design of the game, I just want options that make the game feel fun again. I don’t like the spamminess of post-Legion WoW very much.
But you don’t know how that gold was accumulated for them to be able to buy wow tokens. You don’t know the time investment to earn tokens. You’re assuming what it would be
Which was also removed for the rwf and isn’t a thing anymore as mythic level boes can’t go on the AH till after the race.
Also I buy tokens so I don’t have to grind mats and flasks.
I’d rather spend a half hour of work pay to spend more time with the family.
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Is this a spec talent issue or a problem with the overall player behavior in m+ content?
So play classic since you aren’t able to adapt to the game evolving.
This is fair and I wouldn’t argue that. I’m just saying it should be accounted for along with many other things that go into that choice in playstyle.
Did you know they changed the mythic boes system so that they can’t be sold on the ah still after the rwf?
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Tbh think the thread devolved into splitting hairs as to what constitutes a “casual” player.
Does it really matter? It’s beside the point of the OP
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I play content where fun matters, and that’s my perspective on the issue. I appreciate that you’re way more hardcore than me and are quite invested in class balance and team comp meta, but most of those things literally do not matter to me. I’m a casual player, after all.
So why are some people complaining lately about TWW simplifying some specs now? I swear I’ve seen that around the forums these past couple of weeks.
In your opinion, which is fine.