I want to say this before I get cut off when my money runs out

Community General Discussion
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Unless there has been a big change in the forums, I will not be allowed to post here when my game time runs out.

The “council” idea is already poisoned. You already poisoned it by catering and listening to the top 0.001% and the influencers that participated in mythic raiding content.

We already know you had a secret VIP forum for Method, Echo (formerly known as Method) and all the other elitist jerks that are not literally elitist jerks.

I saw with my own eyes how the mechagnome racials got gutted because of threat to re-reoll alliance because they were so good.

I saw again when dwarves were gutted to the bottom of the bottom tier in 9.0 because you could not accept their racial doing what it was literally made to do in the raid. A single mythic world first guild threatened to transfer for dwarf racial and you immediately nerfed dwarves.

Now you want us to believe you are actually listening.

No. No more catering to the people that will always, no matter what, find a way to exploit your game and min-max as much as they possibly can.

If you are serious about the council, then you cannot let influencers and Method and the guild formerly known as Method in said council. You need to go back to the basic principle of:

“A VIDEO GAME NEEDS TO BE FUN TO PLAY.”

Not, a video game needs to be meticulously analyzed and reviewed by the min-maxer turbo nerd community who will desperately try to abuse anything they can to win because all they care about is winning and we kinda forgot why we were making this game and now nobody is having fun at all even the min-maxers are miserable.

Most important question you ever have to ask when you do anything in a video game is:

“Is this fun?”

“Are people having fun?”

“Is this replayable and still fun?”

If the answer is not yes to all of those you have failed as an MMORPG.

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It sometimes takes a few days or so for the forums to catch up with your loss of sub.

Eh? No one has been chosen for the Council yet, have they?

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If they listened to the .001% then covenants would have never been a meaningful choice from launch. They listen to no one except the person coming up with ideas for maximizing engagement and forcing you to have to log in everyday in fear of falling behind on the grind or FOMO.

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I’m talking about the top secret VIP forum where devs and team 2 managers got to talk to Method and the guild formerly known as Method and influencers. It was literally a council just like this one but all secret and VIP invite only. It lead us directly to where we are now.

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No, the idea is poisoned because there’s nobody Blizzard will listen to except themselves and people willing to agree with them. The last time we did this where we actually had community members and theorycrafters with a forum for direct dialogue the blue posters decided to ignore us then get snippy when we said their ideas were bad.

It’s doomed because it requires Blizzard to shelf their ego, they show no inclination of doing this and they are going to pack the forum with people that are overwhelmingly going to agree with whatever they say they want to do. The opposite of what the initial forum did where they made a good effort to bring in people like me who were immensely critical of the game but also were enough of a community figure like a really prominent rogue theorycrafter to actually listen to what they were trying to say.

Around Legion they started just ignoring us entirely because the developers who cared about the players over their vision left, leaving only the “muh vision” types designing the game.

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Oh wow, you’re spare parts bud

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That one was supposedly a “secret.” This one is out in the open and everyone can read it, as well. I’d say let’s not jump the gun too soon and wait to see who gets invited first.

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You are wrong because they have been listening to Method and the guild formerly known as Method for years. Anytime they hear a threat to transfer because a fight is just way easier for alliance, the fight gets “tweaked.”

They have been listening, just only to a very small group of people who don’t actually represent the playerbase at all.

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Ion wants Warcraft to be an elite e-sport game. He’s a great encounter designer and so that’s all he can see. He has no interest in making the game fun or in having a coherent storyline. It’s all about “challenging encounters”. So of course he only listens to people from that side. And of course that’s why they are losing players hand over fist - because most people aren’t hardcore. Most folks just want to have some relaxing fun… ya know, because it’s a game.

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And yet all the top raiders are the ones that viscerally hate this game. That’s one thing I will never understand when it comes to people like you. You kick and scream about how the game is built around “the 1%” but they’re the ones most critical of the game and these systems Blizzard feels inclined to keep forcing into the game.

This game isn’t designed around anyone, or any thing except the bottom line. Look at the events for facets of the game vs the actual design of them. Mythic raiding is designed around RWF being interesting, but raiding itself sucks and clearly isn’t designed for the playerbase to have a fun time with the bells and whistles you need to do that the game is designed around. It’s a chore.

PvP gets zero attention or care, but Blizzard will make a big deal of their arena championships. Mythic+ gets next to zero care or meaningful changes, about the only one they’ve made that’s been healthy is the removal of the AOE cap, but they still trot out MDI as a big deal but M+ for the average player? Not many actually like it.

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I don’t agree with that.

I understand that Ion is a great encounter designer so he has a bias, but I still don’t have enough proof that Ion wants to turn Warcraft into an elitist jerks universe where all players have the same mentality as he does or his guild. I think he’s a smart and reasonable person who can see what’s happening and I think he’s trying to adapt to the new “situation” as best he can.

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That’s me. I’ve always understood there to be two worlds in WoW. The elites and everyone else. I’ll just be over here in my happy bad casual world.

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Oh goodness, I hope everyone has their favorite popcorn on hand and ready when this council is put together. These forums are going to get interesting.

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Do you seriously believe that? Have you seen a single video on the Warcraft youtube channel in the last 2 years?

You think only “the top 1%” when I really said the top 0.001% which is way may accurate when you are talking about the same 2 guilds that always win world first…

You think the min-maxers hate the game more than anyone else…

Ok. So why nerf dwarf racial for 9.0 mythic raiding? Unless a world first guild threatened to transfer because dwarf racial was just so OP in the raid…

So you think min-maxers hate the game more…

Why has FFXIV blown up? It’s a massive increase. They are trying to be humble over there but it’s MASSIVE.

I’m not buying it. I think you just got triggered by something I said and you lashed out because you can’t handle the facts.

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OP does make some compelling points. Im not quite as pessimistic, but yeah… i cant argue their secret council either led them astray or they didnt listen. This expansion is fun in spite of itself for most part

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See, this is the reasonable, honest answer I was looking for in this thread. Also love the chef tabard.

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So an echo chamber.

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I replied to more people that disagreed with me than agreed, so, no… I’m not making an echo chamber.

I’m making a thread on the WoW forums as my game time expires and I’m putting out an opinion and I’m defending it or agreeing with people who agree with said opinons/points I made in my last forum post before I get cut off.

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Yep.

See eve has this issue. Its had council for years. And in recent years…they weren’t even listening to them by and large. No one wanted scarcity. Took em years to look at rolling this back.

Now this council should have just ripped of the CSM of eve and made it vote based.

This will be tinged with tags of yes men/woman or lackeys or oh its the 1%. even if they aren’t. The appearance is there

EVE CSM is at least in theory vote based. so the top “1%” of eve jsut has their alliance vote en masse lol. So it at least in theory has the you could raise a movement to not see it filled goons, test, pandemic legion people. again…

Technically they were voted in (by 1000+ person alliances and most in 0.0 have 2+ accounts so it floods votes really) so CCP was hands off on the appointments.

And sometimes the theory worked. One or 2 CSM’s a wormhole resident (imagine living and playing in a raid, with mythic + bad prefixes…all the time, weak analogy but all I got) got on the council.

That took many wormhole corps getting organized. Impressive that…most wormhole corps are cut throat as hell. They are all business competitors you see.

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That’s how it came across when you seemed to only approve of that message that agreed with you, even saying that’s what you were looking for. So it’s how I interpreted it.

Thank you for clarifying. :slightly_smiling_face:

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