I want the game to go back to being simpler

Couple things here, first being that I agree with you. And i’m going to catch a lot of flak for this, but idrc.

  1. Mythic, should not give you gear, if should give you a title and maybe a mount upon completion and that is it, maybe an achievement.
  2. M+ Should only drop up to whatever Heroic gear’s ilvl is from the raid.
  3. Remove LFR, let people queue straight into Normal. Heroic could/can also be queued into, mythic cannot. Any can use the group finder however.
  4. Scenarios are in fact fun.
  5. M+ keys, should not exist. Instead you should just be able to go in, select whatever + from whatever dungeon and run it. Losing a “key rank” shouldn’t exist.
  6. Ranked Rating for pvp should not equate to getting better gear, gear should not be locked behind ranks.

There’s probably several other things that i’m forgetting. I played this game back in 2004 when it launched, I played all the way through until cata and stopped. SL and DF being the two expansions that I ran into after years of not playing…and they have both been absolutely boring gear treadmills, with little substance outside of that. Some people like that, some people don’t (I definitely don’t). That’s just my 2 cents. I don’t even play alts anymore because I don’t have time for it.

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What is the actual problem? what can’t you do that you could do before?

All you got was more stuff you could do.

I hate when people throw this argument around. But are you sure it’s not just envy?

Because from an outsider’s perspective, it sounds like your problem at the root is that there is a bigger ilevel between you and other people thats wasnt as big in yesteryear.

So what

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If a game is stressing you out that sounds more like a you problem than a purely game problem. It’s likely a mix.

No one is forcing you to do anything above M0.

If you feel like you’re not powerful… you might not be, for what you choose to do.

I am powerful in M+ sub 15. Past that, I’m not. And this doesn’t bother me because I don’t really strive to do those. I do however want to do well at what I do like to do – which is entirely possible even with my limited gametime.

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It doesnt sound like you want this. You have this already.

it sounds like you dont want others to do it. Which is where I sorta draw the line.

I think stuff you like shouldnt give you gear.

:roll_eyes:

Then why make it harder than heroic raiding?

Why remove LFR?

As long as they dont give you gear. Maybe a title and a mount option. Thats it. Maybe an achievement.

shrug

Gear shouldnt be tied to progression?

You seem to be arguing heavy for progression to be removed.

Every expansion was a gear treadmill.

Sounds like you really want others to stop playing WoW.

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It already doesn’t.

Changes like this would come with changes for difficulty as well, you can’t be that dense.

Too many different pieces of gear that need balancing/closes a gear gap, it’s also not different from Normal. Things just hit harder and have more health in normal.

PVP gear should not be tied to rating. Gear Prog and Rank Prog are not the same thing, and you know that.

This is a copout. Gear progression has existed since 2004, the constant gear treadmill has not.

I’m not saying people can’t like what is here currently. I’m straight telling you I don’t like it and what I would do to change it, which people also wouldn’t like. You cannot, nor will you ever, please everyone.

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I find it interesting how hard you want to change content you dont like that others like.

But you arent suggesting changes in difficulty.

But they dont balance LFR gear special. Its a story mode for people that want an easier difficulty.

How do you gear prog without rank prog in PVP? What is the progression in PVP?

Can you explain how it changed? Specifically. I would like you to tell me how today we have CONSTANT gear progression in such a way that didnt exist previously.

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I could. I could set here and explain it all. But it won’t change anything. I’m not here to change your mind or make you understand me. I said my part, that’s it. I don’t do circle conversations anymore.

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But its not

You say I am making cop outs.

You had no issue responding to me multiple times. With point by point break downs.

The moment I ask you to go into any specifics on your vague statement?

You run away. Because you just dont have time or something.

So to recap your statement.

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I mean nah. I’ve seen these conversations play out hundreds of times already. They go in circles. So, shrug you’re free to take a win? If that makes you feel better. I’m not going to derail this thread further either.

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translation :

If you are unable to show how we now have a “constant gear treadmill” then I must take it at face value.

If the conversation goes in a circle because of your inability to show your point, and you dont change your mind despite this…

The issue isnt other people.

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Whatever helps you feel better. Good luck.

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You need 1 whelp crest per slot to get everything to 408. You get 2-4 drake crests a week from weekly content with the opportunity to farm way way more, you get a 424 spark item every 2 weeks that backdates and 2 free upgrades for those items to 437 (campaign and Loamm rep) and world content offers avenues to 424 catalyzable tier with a deterministic vendor.

You get a char from fresh to 420 at least without stepping into a m+ or raid past Lfr in under a week, and easily get there in 2. Not knowing how to do that is understandable, but denying it’s possible less so.

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And I want my body to go back to not falling asleep every time I eat a meal… But here we are

This sounds like lowering the skill cap a lot, and many LESS people would participate now than they are already if this were the case, I fail to see the benefit of this other than closing the gap between you and mythic raiders. Mythic participation is already pretty low, removing rewards isn’t going to help matters

Same as before

I think LFR should be either a solo, or extremely easy difficulty JUST to see the story. that being said I do not think you should be able to just QUEUE into raids. THe amount of people that go in blind to these things is crazy and they just expect a rundown of the fight from others, it’s rude as hell and not something I want coming out of LFR (which is what would happen)

true

This is another attempt at cutting content for no reason, if you don’t want to participate that’s fine, that’s not a reason to cut it. Not everybody wants an easy game. Key depletion I can understand and I agree it should be done away with, the punishment of not finishing the key is enough.

True, but I think you’ll find many pvp players lose interest quicker when they feel their character isn’t progressing meaningfully beyond rank. I do not know a good solution though and kinda feel like it’s a separate conversation from OP interest

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Just play classic.

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Your time is appropriately rewarded for the difficulty level you are completing. On top of that the game gives you flexibility to advance your rewards UP if you do choose to try to climb higher.

Here are some of the best examples:

Crafted gear: for completing casual content you get to make a very nice piece of gear every 2 weeks. You are also able to keep using that same piece to ugprade it to any level you want to play at up to including the maximum ilvl available in the game. NO RNG just rewards for doing the content, this is unlike anything wow ever had before. If you didnt do the hardest raid content, you weren’t getting any of the best gear.

Vault: A reward higher than the m+ level you completed weekly or a guaranteed raid piece if the same lvl you did for that week.

Catalyst: Literally free tier gear classic players never had access to in the “old days of simplicity” yea the game was simple, either you did the hard stuff or you got NO tier and no forgiveness for being casual. Now you do, I don’t understand how people can sit there and scoff at the fact they can just access tier gear without getting lucky or ever setting foot in a raid. whatever.

that’s not a new problem and is actually a symptom of how accessible the game has become. The solution would be to return to closed servers and remove automated queues, forcing people to talk. I guarantee you that you are not the kind of person that would benefit from this change and you’d have even lower gear than you have now.

the old game was daunting in other ways…so you agree. The levels of difficulty were introduced as a way of letting players participate without being shoehorned into something that was too hard for them to do or too daunting. Play in your comfort zone but don’t expect your comfort zone to be the only difficulty.

Here it is, the “top”, see this might be the heart of your issue. You are asking to be at the same level as a mythic raider with the same amount of time/effort/skill you put into the game that you have currently and if you can’t then you want the game curved to that point so that everyone is on the same level. That might be fun, for you, but there are many players who just won’t enjoy the game. Is it jealousy? maybe or maybe not, but an inclusive game isn’t one where everything has to be made for the lowest skill levels because then the people above will just lose interest much quicker, and that isn’t good for the game.

This is not a new thing, addons have existed since vanilla and many serious guilds have always required them. I think they are doing a better job now at giving you enough on screen information that you can get away with not using addons, to a certain level.

Wow is enormous, it’s not gonna change. You keep saying the word casual but you want the word casual to mean max ilvl and all rewards. IDK why you insist on this point so much. Do you want to climb? or do you want to be casual? which is it?

LFR was the opening of a door that the wow team can’t close anymore, which is accessibility. It used to be that you had to respect the content, and only hardcore players willing to communicate with a team and actually be good at the game would participate in raiding content.

LFR let casual people in and that’s how they started pushing for all the rewards to always be available at all levels of play.

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Remove the fact there were gdkp buyers even in pre-cata wow the first time…and this would be almost true.

But its not, gdkp buyers were there the first time too. they don’t run the raid. They sit there and look pretty.

They pay more is all. So it advised to git gud to jsut be a regular raider on the run.

YOu can also thank GS for lfr. It was bad the first time. alpha/beta round 2 made it even more “fun”.

sure, but i am strictly speaking of a player wanting to play the game as op described it. The “legitimate” way

I mean you can do all that right now.

Just do Mythic 0, and pug normal raids then do the world content like timerifts that’s relaxing.

It’s so odd to me that you need for options to be taken away from others in order to enjoy doing the content you like.

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