Nobody is blocking puggers from playing. If you’re a weirdo who for some reason refuses to join a guild in a social game, you can make your own group if you don’t meet other people’s requirements.
What is so offensive about making your own group?
You know, you are also a vanilla WoW player. If you want, you can make your own raids and PuG your own members, free from the restrictions you feel other players are placing on you. There’s absolutely nothing stopping you from doing this.
This is the power you have here. No one can help you with this problem, otherwise. Blizzard cannot tell its community how to recruit players. If you delete WCL tomorrow they’ll find some other gatekeeping metric. Your options are join a guild or build your own PuG raids or look for PuGs with less strenuous requirements (there are, in fact, many all the time).
1 Like
People like him don’t want to make their own groups because they won’t be able to get carried, let’s be real here.
He wants the other raiders to be solid, and for him to get carried.
If he makes his own group he cannot get carried because he’ll invite people in the same position as him and have to actually put effort into the raid.
Let me tell you how this comes across, if you don’t already know. “I don’t agree with you, so I’m going to resort to namecalling”. There could be many reasons that joining a guild isn’t practical nor weird. Erratic schedule is a distinct possibility. Maybe you get bored with one alt and like to switch it up, but rotating your role doesn’t work for a old school guild/raid structure of “you are a healer and we need you to be a healer forever”. Maybe you’re in a raiding guild but you want to raid on alts, but your guild doesn’t, and that is where the frustration comes in.
Raid leading isn’t for everyone. Maybe it’s inexperience or whatever… maybe it’s just not fun to spam a chat channel for hours?
I think “join a guild or make your own group” is an apologist argument for a game that recognized the failure of it and corrected it in later editions. There could be solutions that wouldn’t impact purists that could benefit people who want to play this game in a way that you don’t.
I don’t think it’s super helpful to make assumptions about other players. I am sympathetic to people who are just like, trying to play the video game, and find that the walls put up by other players to protect themselves from the bad player boogeyman often create more problems than there were before they put these walls up. I am also sympathetic to the number of “extracurricular” measurement services we have to submit to, outside the scope of normal WoW, in order to appease those players. Having logs, being able to prove 6/6 experience, having a good (lol) gear score, whatever it is. It’s all just a bunch of extra stuff that sucks to take part in, and I recognize that.
I’m just saying complaining about it on the forums is pointless because it’s never going to change, and he does, in fact, have options. I’m trying to legitimately be helpful to this person, he can take the advice or not.
I gave you an option for getting into a raid, making your own group.
Gnomer is a joke. Watch 1 YouTube video of all the fights and you can easily explain it to people, that’s all you have to do.
You have options, you just refuse to use them and blame the game. I also doubt you’ll never find a pug that doesn’t take non 6/6. Where do you think the grey parsers came from? They had to complete the raid to get their grey parse logged, so clearly low performing players are getting into raids.
Friend, this is the game. I mean this with the most possible respect. Get LFG bulletin board (addon) to make it a little easier to skim groups, but at the end of the day, this is classic. If there’s anything classic players agree on (and there aren’t many things) it’s that group placement by game systems is antithetical to the spirit of this version of the game.
1 Like
I know what the options are… the other one, which you left out, is to not raid, which is what I’m currently doing 
My point was that pugging is the “toxic” or “gatekeepery” or whatever word people want to use… In phase one, it was much less so, in phase two, it’s amped up to be not worth pugging for a lot of folks.
I won’t take anyone below blue.
And if two of the same specs are trying to join I’ll bring the highest Parser of the two
No, I get it… I don’t understand it myself though… I’ve played WoW from Nov 2004 until about midway through Cata when it lost the magic for me… and the thing I always hated most about the game was the lack of matchmaking… when they added RDF in original WoTLK, I was very happy with it. Now, I get that people have a big thorn in their side about it, and I’m not suggesting it land here, but there’s other things that could be done to make pugging more viable.
When RDF was added, it overnight killed guild runs, broke up networks of friends and connections who used to come together to get dungeons done. Because the most “effecient” thing to do was just log in and queue, where everyone was a silent glorified bot you’d never see again in your life.
That wasn’t my experience… but it it were true, it would be pretty damning evidence that there was nothing social about those guilds and they were just a means to an end. That being said, I think the cross-server grouping was what had the most negative impact, not so much the convenient matchmaking.
I don’t discount the effort required to put a group together (be it a guild or otherwise) is part of the challenge of group content. We could have some UI to make it less annoying - LFG BB is ok, but far from good and still requires spamming a chat channel, but that wouldn’t really change the underlying issue of “my minimum standards to invite someone are high”.
If this were a “social” game, then forming a group and muddling through the content would be no big deal… people were/are doing that in BFD. They aren’t in Gnomer. That tells me it’s a Gnomer problem, not a guild problem, not a pugger problem, not something that needs a tool like RDF to solve… I get that some people want more of a challenge than BFD offered, but some people don’t… and that’s the source of the consternation.
lfm gnomer 90% parse or better req all world buffs and consumes must have 6/6 experience and 7/7 in bfd
The toxic raid meta is a myth made by those who are upset when they dont get invited to any and every raid they try to get in.
There are definatly some toxic raid leaders out there, but most are not like that.
Is it just me or does the LFG channel look like an RSS feed with a bunch of aliexpress product descriptions
Dont forget 8/8 sunken temple experience.
1 Like
I ran sunken temple in tbc once
yes it does
Link logs or no inv! Lol.
1 Like
myth and the people who complain about raid logs or class meta could just form a group and invite the first 9 people who whisper them