I think... Classic

I don’t think you get the point. In retail I could replace those people at random, doesn’t matter, I could sub them out for AI helpers, wouldn’t change a thing. I’m not talking about mythic raiding here, I’m talking about the bulk of the game that people play being LFR and mythic +.

In Vanilla it had impact with who you play with and how you treat those people. They were people you could give advice to in order for your run to go smoother or you could piss them off and lose that player and wait 30min finding a replacement who would travel all that way to the dungeon. People had something called investment in their community, guild, actions, and reputation. Doesn’t mean there weren’t a-holes, but even they had to get in line if they wanted a shot at advancing their character. The elitist still required help from the group, raid, profession masters to get to their prestige.

Your experience in retail might be different. I’m not saying that all experience the same thing, but the bulk of experiences and reaction of dropping subs is evidence that they are not enjoying the streamlined game of retail. If you happened to find good community in retail, all the better for you and hope you continue to enjoy it. I also ask that you don’t try to rain on people’s joy for something they want “classic.”


It sucks being wrong eh?

Except that in retail, they can be mute strangers that you will never ever see again. They may as well be NPCs.

Don’t tout it as an MMO when you play with other players when you never have to speak to speak to them on even the most basic of levels.

That is the very nature of every single game, online or otherwise.

The community changed first before the game, you can’t ignore that people and their available time changed way more dramatically and far more quickly than the game did, ignoring and saying this fact doesnt exist or is incorrect is wrong, all blizzard did was keep up with the player bases available time to play.


Whatever. Subs were at an all time high when they started making gamebreaking changes.

The difference is that BfA is heavily curated, while classic is more freeform.

1.12 is a nerfed version of Vanilla. Will i still play it? Hell ya.

Both the community and the game changed. Arguing which changed first is a chicken or egg argument. I think the game changed first, and the community followed the path of least resistance , but that doesn’t automatically make me right.

I bailed out on Cataclysm, skipped MoP and returned at the end of WoD. The game I came back to was so radically different than the one I remember. I think it is a lot of little things, disguised as quality of life changes that sucked the soul out of the game and the community. I didn’t even see it until I came back WoD.

Professions are gutted. There is no real reason you need to interact with other players for anything. CRZ makes your zone have players in it, but they are random and anonymous. You may see them today, but will never see that person again. LFD and LFR means you don’t need to join a guild or network to find people to run with. Just click a button and the game will set you up with a group. You’ll never run with anyone in that group again, so no reason to speak to them or consider them as anything other than NPCs that allow you to finished the content. Questing is easily solo-able, elites and rares? Again solo-able and even worse, open tag, so you don’t even need to bother to group with anyone to get “credit” for a kill. It all makes the game feel like a single-player game that just happens to have other people playing around you.

I did a random LFD heroic in Legion that included a DH tank and DH dps. They certainly didn’t need a healer and ran through the dungeon so fast I couldn’t keep up despite using my movement ability on CD. By the end, I was almost 2 rooms behind them and the final boss died as I got to them. Gave new meaning to the term “dungeon run.” I failed to see what was supposed to be fun about that experience, because it wasn’t.

Even Trade Chat, which was always filled with trolls, is just an anonymous overflowing toilet with nothing game related in it, where before there was at least game related stuff sprinkled in among the trolls.

The game is different and the community is different. Some people like the way it has changed, it suits their playstyle and their goals in the game, and that’s fine. But for other people, the changes have resulted in a game experience that is less fun. That second group of people are extremely likely to be looking forward to Classic. I am in that second group.

I really don’t understand what there is to argue about here. People are different and like different things.


I can do literally the same exact thing in classic. It was actually a very common thing that people would tend to run with their guild rather than pug. These forums actually warn against pugging. So what’s your point?

Once again, it’s YOUR choices that are affecting your perception of the community, not the community itself.

I’ve ran with familiar faces in mythics in legion all the time, then again i main tank and there isn’t any reason to not group with a familiar tank you can trust to get you through the dungeon, I’ve also seen familiar faces in zones as well. Then again a lot of those people are ones I’ve tanked for.

Oof mate, chillax.

1 Like

This is true, Classic will not be glorious as it should be.

Fixed it for you

I’m going to assume you can understand that your experience does not invalidate anyone else’s experience.

Yes but it doesn’t excuse that it doesnt exist.

Uhh… you have to grind rep to access the main story.
You have to grind artifact power to get access to some traits and abilities.
You have to grind various content for essences to have equal abilities with other players of max level.
You have to grind rep to access flying.
You have to grind PvE gear to PvP at a high level.

I don’t know if classic will be a success or not, but some aspects of it have a lot of appeal over current WoW. If they re-released TBC/WoTLK/Cata, I’d definitely play those over current WoW.

The difference between old wow and current wow regarding the grind is that most of the grinds back in the day were optional, and you could do them when and how you wanted- there wasn’t basic gameplay locked behind them, and they weren’t time gated.

The only “required” grinds were raid attunements, which were only somewhat intensive in vanilla - in BC, they were toned down significantly, and in WoTLK, they were pretty much removed entirely.

Certain content/gear/crafting rewards were locked behind grinds, but since the power gap between player characters was much smaller (Ex: in vanilla, Naxx DPS isn’t even double MC DPS - that’s pre-raid BiS to pre-Naxx BiS), so while there was an edge to be gained, they weren’t as much of a necessity as now. And, the rewards from the most intensive grinds were usually cosmetic rewards like mounts or companion pets.

Back in Vanilla-WoTLK, rep grinds were optional, and there were multiple ways to complete them - dungeons, killing mobs, doing dailies, etc… You could take them mostly at your own pace/method, or skip them entirely. In current wow, pretty much all of the rep grinds are mandatory just to have full gameplay access.

It’s not. the Problem is when the grind is made a requirement for gameplay and time gated - like pathfinder and artifact power.
In old wow, most of the grinding was for materials, gold, experience (while leveling), gear, or consumables - most of which can also be bought/sold between players using the auction house, making what players grind and when a choice.

Gating abilities/traits (essences, artifact power traits), and flying (a gameplay/travel mechanic), behind the grind makes it effectively mandatory. You don’t really get to make the choice of when and what to grind or for how long anymore, especially with the severe diminishing returns due to the most efficient (and often the only) content for grinding being gated weekly/daily. Granted, that’s a necessity with the AP system, because otherwise character power differences would get even more out of control, and we’re already seeing player character power double (or more) in every patch, which is already absurd. With professions not being as relevant in BFA, farming mats also doesn’t have much value.


This thread is hopeless. :rofl:
It isn’t that retail may’ve changed in ways that make it no longer a game you enjoy and want to play.

Retail hasn’t changed over the years, you’re just anti-social.
If it has changed over the years, you’re just doing it wrong now and need to be instructed on how to have fun.
If you don’t find retail fun, there is something wrong with you because I’m having fun.

This thread has been sadly hilarious, but I think it has run its course. Have fun in Classic, or retail, or both.

1 Like

So basically the problem is that now, you have to actually play the game to progress through it? Rather than just ding 60 and walk into MC since you already got that quest done in your 50s…

1 Like

Unoriginal and drab. 0/10

Guessing all those patch notes over the years have been flavor text.

It hasn’t changed in the ways that all of you are claiming. The community is still very similar to what it was back then, you just don’t want to be a part of it for some reason. We still make friends and run stuff together. We still work on progressing ourselves in gear and through the game.

I’m sorry that you don’t want to talk to people unless they’re only on your realm or that you, or that world quests are the end of the game for you, but for the rest of us, we’ve made friends, we work together, and we have way more challenging content now, that we actively do, than we had at 60.

1 Like