I tested out the HOJ triple swing bug


Im unsure about alliance side, but 2h fury is much higher dps horde side with this current gear, until deathbringer/flurry axe on an orc, due to wind fury totems.


Im not sure if you linked me this vid or not, but the altered macro for a paladin only is explained in depth from 1m40s.

So its no longer spamming 2 macro side by side, but 1 macro.

Now the bosoc was patched out to not work for classic even though that did also work in vanilla.


no it didn’t


Oh wait your correct - they fixed in the patch 1.4 notes.

Would you believe what else i just found in those same patch notes…

Extra attacks gained from spells and abilities are applied immediately and do not affect normal combat swing time.


Blizzard broke the way reckoning works, when they hotfixed the kazzak 1 shot (infinite reckoning stacking), and never bothered to fix it. From what I understand, it used to give an extra swing on your next auto (instead of resetting the timer, and wasting some procs), and you could still stack them up. The way it works now, is how it worked when I played a reckoning paladin in vanilla, but I would rather have it give us an extra attack on the next auto.

I am assuming the HoJ bug also has to do with it just resetting the swing timer, instead of actually giving an extra attack. I wouldn’t mind if they fixed this bug, because it would overall be a gain for lazy people like myself, who don’t want to manually swing, or spam macros.


Hoj works fine on its on. Using the stop/start macro causes it to do this.


It’s more likely that the proc is being treated like a spell and is pushed to the end of the batch window while a white dmg attack is also being added. That would account for why this bug only occurs when HoJ procs and is not caused in general by batching

To clarify, this is what I think is going on:

  1. Client sends a packet to server for white dmg swing at 300ms into batch window
  2. Server, after correcting for latency correctly decides that the swing should be placed at the end of this batch window
  3. At 400 ms server ‘casts’ swing, and ‘rolls the die’ to determine if HoJ procs
  4. HoJ procs, server sends packet to client
  5. Client receives packet at 400ms + latency so that their swing timer is at 100ms + latency when they see that HoJ has procced
  6. Client’s swing timer resets and they swing again?


The main reason you can’t use seal twisting as a counter argument here is because Blizzard’s official stance on it was that they didn’t like it, but were fine with the “creative use of game mechanics.” (It may have even been the first time that phrase was used)

The /sit /stand is something that invalidates Blizzard’s attempt to fix your ability to control when you get reckoning charges.

Blizz never tried to break seal twisting. Blizz did try to break controlled reckoning charge build up, repeatedly (/sit, blessing of sacrifice). That’s what makes the /sit /stand action fall under exploit.

I seriously doubt blizzard would actually ban or take action against anyone using it, but it would not surprise me if it got fixed down the road, despite being blizzlike 1.12 behavior, since it was also clearly unintended by the developers at the time based on their actions against /sit.

It would be very difficult to argue that the developers didn’t like /sit to gain guaranteed charges to the point of patching it out, but were cool with /sit /stand doing it.


i’ve seen a similar issue with SoC proccing though.

i will cast SoC within melee range but immediately go to heal (cause i’m healing the group) and SoC will proc when i am in the middle of a heal and the swing timer hasn’t had time to elapse.

need better testing - but the swap to a heal is doing the same thing as the macro essentially.


Did some testing with spamming the macro into abilities - success with windfury.


LOL this is one of the biggest QQ posts ever. Why dont you just ask Blizz to make HOJ Rogue only. Its not a bug. HOJ can proc off of sword spec and wf. The slower the weapon the better.


Its not a bug. Youre just mad HOJ is better for Warriors and Shamans and Paladins cuz they have 2hs. windfury can proc off of HOJ… although rare. What on earth are you complaining about. thats the entire point of having sword spec and hoj and wf totem near you as a warrior. just because rogues dont benefit as much because of their little one handers doesnt mean you get to ruin the game for everyone else.


Except that it’s not better at all. Go check top logs, 2h isn’t even pulling away on cleave fights at the high end. Classic mechanics, itemization, and talents have catapulted early 1h fury dps to be nearly twice as good as what many were anticipating.




NO ONE, myself included, is disputing that HOJ can proc off of windfury, sword spec, reckoning, etc. no one. Of course it can. And that is definitely working as intended.

What IS NOT working as intended is HOJ granting TWO extra attacks (versus one) EVERY TIME with a simple macro.

I’m NOT trying to change the game in any way, but fix a HoJ bug.

It just so happens the bug has EXTRA synergy with sword sword, windfury, reckoning etc. because the extra swing through HOJ can prove those affects to us makes it more pernicious than it originally appears.

Tl;dr to make it simple for you: HOJ is supposed to only give one extra swing when it procs, but through a macro now gives two. Hand of justice is not supposed to give two extra attacks.


they cannot remove it without completely removing Spell Batching - Seal Twisting is in the same boat - without spell batching, it isn’t possible

I specifically asked Kevin Jordan about it when I interviewed him on C2C’s podcast and he basically said there was nothing they could do about it given that it was a technology limitation at the time - ie: Spell Batching

PS you could macro double trinkets together with spell batching as well even though that was specifically nerfed by Blizzard earlier in Vanilla as well


im ok with this bug


Yep. I believe that completely. I still consider in an “exploit,” just one that didn’t/doesn’t carry any consequence (like 99% of wall walking locations you could reach).

While it was a technical limitation of the time, and they couldn’t fix it, that’s likely no longer the case. Although fixing it would break from 1.12 behavior.

The current devs have broken some old bug exploits already (wall jumping is definitely different compared to vanilla). It’s yet to be seen how much of the old batching behavior they leave alone, and how much they decide to change. I feel as though they could very easily move certain things out of the spell batch for immediate processing if they really wanted to break some of this kind of behavior with current server tech.

Based on what we have seen on classic so far, the chance of it being changed doesn’t seem to be 0%.

Kind of depends on where the current developers fall on #nochanges, which isn’t exactly 100% no changes.


Damn your irritating.




My point exactly. If you were my child I’d go through a lot more belts.