08/01/2018 02:26 PMPosted by
Aurael
08/01/2018 02:09 PMPosted by
Veloran
Also all of this ignores the fact the Alliance attacked first in Stormheim anyway.
Why did Genn have such a vendetta against Sylvanas in the first place?
Did you not play the Worgen starting zone?
08/01/2018 02:26 PMPosted by
Aurael
Why did Genn have such a vendetta against Sylvanas in the first place?
Gilneas was not a member of the Alliance when Sylvanas attacked them, so that is not a justification for the Alliance to go to war with the Horde. If Genn Greymane's personal vendetta is a good enough reason to go to war, I question the Alliance's judgement.
Idk why people get so mad when the horde do horde things, like the horde dosnt have a moral compass. That's for the alliance, the horde does what needs to be done in our journey to make sure we come out on top. It's a dog eat dog world and we make sure we survive.
The alliance does not trust us, nor should we them. We will do what we have to and that's how the horde be. For the horde!
08/01/2018 02:29 PMPosted by
Loukas
08/01/2018 02:26 PMPosted by
Aurael
Why did Genn have such a vendetta against Sylvanas in the first place?
Gilneas was not a member of the Alliance when Sylvanas attacked them, so that is not a justification for the Alliance to go to war with the Horde. If Genn Greymane's personal vendetta is a good enough reason to go to war, I question the Alliance's judgement.
She killed his
son. All things considered that's good enough justification for him at least to throw himself into the battle. Besides, though he went in with Alliance forces, the directive was to aid in retrieval of the Shield, Genn going after Sylvanas was just him going AWOL.
08/01/2018 02:43 PMPosted by
Ireyic
She killed his son. All things considered that's good enough justification for him at least to throw himself into the battle. Besides, though he went in with Alliance forces, the directive was to aid in retrieval of the Shield, Genn going after Sylvanas was just him going AWOL.
That was Genn going against orders in an act of aggression against the Horde. However, as far as I know Anduin and the other Alliance leaders never condemned that action, and Genn has faced no repercussions, so they by their actions (or inaction) have shown tacit approval of what he did.
08/01/2018 10:16 AMPosted by
Khairan
Now that made sylvanas evil and she committed a genocide, I hope that there is no redemption of any kind. It would be insulting to see an "azeroth is free" at the end. sylvanas must die and we the players of the horde who must be kill her.
You mean we have to kill another Warchief? When does that ever get old? -_-
08/01/2018 03:44 PMPosted by
Dastier
You mean we have to kill another Warchief? When does that ever get old? -_-
I doubt Blizzard would pull that twice, honestly.
I personally think Sylvanas will make a good Warchief. She may be doing questionable actions now but I feel like they will build her leadership as the xpac goes on. She may be dark, but she will keep us alive and fighting, not dying for the sake of honour (not reference to anything that she done yet, but potential future events).
Plus, if they are really setting us up for ANOTHER warchief then Blizz needs to fire their writing team. That would just show poor and unimaginative writing.
As a second point, I think with the rising of old god stuff in Azeroth that Sylvanas will end up being a key person in the fight against them. Which will end up being an interesting story, the person who has done so much that people are upset about, yet she is the one to save us. Can you bring yourself to following her if it means we will save Azeroth from the Void?
As for me, the answer is, in a heartbeat.
I also feel that Saurfang needs to be put down for treason.
If I was really there and given the chance, I'd have destroyed Saurfang right there and then, and brought Sylvanas not only just Malfurion's head, but also Tyrande's too since she showed up. Provided I still had Aluneth...
I love how she deals with Saurfang and Baine.
She takes the time to discuss things with Saurfang. And she convinces him to go to war on the merits of the facts.
And Baine?
She does not flaunt his treachery. She tells him to stop communicating with Anduin. She knows he is a good partner to have, so she fosters that relationship on her terms - instead of embarrassing the Tauren.
Contrast that with how Garrosh treated Voljin, Cairne, and Sylvanas.
Somehow people compare the two. There is no comparison.
i agree that what she did was tactically sound, just like Oda Nobunaga burning down the sacred mountain Mount Hiei and slaughtering every single person on the mountain. It is not surprising, just like Sylvanas, he is considered evil as well for doing such actions (and more). that being said as a Night elf and a Druid i do plan on getting my fair share of revenge for such an action justified or not :) DEATH TO THE HORDE!!!!!!!!
08/01/2018 02:59 PMPosted by
Loukas
08/01/2018 02:43 PMPosted by
Ireyic
She killed his son. All things considered that's good enough justification for him at least to throw himself into the battle. Besides, though he went in with Alliance forces, the directive was to aid in retrieval of the Shield, Genn going after Sylvanas was just him going AWOL.
That was Genn going against orders in an act of aggression against the Horde. However, as far as I know Anduin and the other Alliance leaders never condemned that action, and Genn has faced no repercussions, so they by their actions (or inaction) have shown tacit approval of what he did.
Should they condemn him from acting on Intel found abord Sylvanas ship that lead him to
stopping her from enslaving an entire race?What a bad dog.
08/01/2018 08:44 AMPosted by
Loukas
Since every Horde player seems to be jumping ship at this point, I'll just post my thoughts here about the events of the burning of Teldrassil and why I still support Sylvanas.
First of all, Saurfang should be hanged for treason at the earliest opportunity. He chose to let one of the enemy's most powerful generals and one of its most symbolically important figures walk, defying a direct order from his Warchief. He did this for his own sense of "honor." Saurfang is quite simply not fit to lead. He is willing to throw away victory in this war in exchange for his own warm feeling in his tummy.
Let's not forget, people, that the Alliance started this war. Why were we able to rush through Darkshore so easily? Because the Night Elves had sent their entire fleet to Silithus. And why did they send their entire fleet to Silithus? Because the Horde was mining a valuable resource, azerite. That's right: the Alliance sent a military force against a Horde operation simply because they didn't trust what the Horde would do with that resource. For all they knew, we might use it for some purpose that the Alliance, in their infinite wisdom and moral superiority, may have disapproved of. It's a good thing we have the Alliance to teach us ignorant savages right from wrong and keep us from making the wrong choices! Sarcasm aside, the moment they sent their fleet to Silithus, the war was begun. In so doing, they stupidly left their home base undefended, and Sylvanas chose to seize that opportunity and strike at them where they were most vulnerable. So far, all sound and justified military decisions.
Remember that Sylvanas's stated goal from the start was to destroy the Night Elves' will to fight. In order to further her goal of control over Kalimdor, a key step toward victory in the war at large, the Horde needed to remove Darnassus as an Alliance asset. We could not have the Night Elves continually trying to retake the tree while we fought a war with the rest of the Alliance; that would have created two fronts. Her original plan was to kill Malfurion and use that to pacify the Night Elves. However, when talking with the Night Elf captain on the beach, it became clear to her that the Night Elves' will to fight would not be broken. So, she did the only thing she could do to remove Darnassus as a strategic element: she destroyed it.
This was not a fit of emotion on her part. She did not do it because she was upset at what the Night Elf had said. She did it because denying the Alliance Darnassus was a key strategic goal in the war. When it became clear that the Night Elves would never stop trying to retake it, she destroyed it. Sylvanas is doing what is necessary to win this war - a war that the Alliance started with their colonial attitude toward the Horde. The Alliance had no right to dictate to the Horde what resources they could gather, when, or why. Alliance aggression started this, and Sylvanas is taking the necessary steps to ensure that the Horde wins.
And if your stomache churns at the thought of civilians being killed in the tree, I have two points for you. First, it was the Night Elves' decision to house their civilians in the same place as their important military target. Second, the shock that the Night Elves should feel at that loss should make them seriously reconsider any future actions against the Horde - and that was exactly the point.
This is a great post and very entertaining! I tip my hat to you.
But for a serious rebuttal, sending ones forces to a neutral area with no violent engagement is not an act of war. Burning a people's Homeland to the ground while massacring innocents is. This was not reprisal for a wrong done. This was a preemptive strike against a civilian population.
There will be a reckoning.
I wanted to say thank you Loukas for expressing your loyalty to our warchief. It is nice to know that there are others who still support her and are not jumping on the saurfang bandwagon.
08/01/2018 08:44 AMPosted by
Loukas
First of all, Saurfang should be hanged for treason at the earliest opportunity.
Aaaand you lost me right there. With you on the title though.
11/07/2018 01:21 PMPosted by
Gler
I wanted to say thank you Loukas for expressing your loyalty to our warchief. It is nice to know that there are others who still support her and are not jumping on the saurfang bandwagon.
Dude, there are literally hundreds of threads on this but instead you decide to necro a thread from August, why, exactly?
Why was this thread necro'd? Its from August. Also, this response to the OPs post is absolutely fantastic. Shame the narrative parallels went over his head.
08/01/2018 10:11 AMPosted by
Aurael
[quote]Since every WoW player seems to be jumping ship at this point, I'll just post my thoughts here about the events of Wrath of the Lich King and why I still support Arthas.
First of all, Uther should be hanged for treason at the earliest opportunity. He chose to let one of the enemy's most powerful generals and one of its most symbolically important figures walk, defying a direct order from his King. He did this for his own sense of "honor." Uther is quite simply not fit to lead. He is willing to throw away victory in this war in exchange for his own warm feeling in his tummy.
Let's not forget, people, that the mortals started this war. Why were we able to rush through Azeroth so easily? Because the mortals had sent their forces to Northrend. And why did they send their forces to Northrend? Because they heard the Plague originated there. That's right: the mortals sent a military force against an alchemy operation simply because they didn't trust what the Scourge would do with that resource. For all they knew, the Scourge might use it for some purpose that the mortals, in their infinite wisdom and moral superiority, may have disapproved of. It's a good thing we have the mortals to teach us vile scourge right from wrong and keep us from making the wrong choices! Sarcasm aside, the moment they sent their fleet to Northrend, the war was begun. In so doing, they stupidly left their home base undefended, and Arthas chose to seize that opportunity and strike at them where they were most vulnerable. So far, all sound and justified military decisions.
Remember that Arthas' stated goal from the start was to destroy Azeroth's will to fight. In order to further his goal of control over the world, a key step toward victory in the war at large, the Scourge needed to resurrect Kel'thuzad. We could not have the mortals continually trying to retake their lands while we fought a war with the rest of the world; that would have created two fronts. His original plan was to gain a champion and free himself from the Frozen Throne. However, when thinking about his old friend, it became clear to him that he needed to bring back his most trusted ally. So, he did the only thing he could do: destroy Quel'thalas and its precious Sunwell.
This was not a fit of emotion on his part. He did not do it because he was upset at the High Elves for trying to assassinate him in Northrend. He did it because resurrecting Kel'thuzad was a key strategic goal in the war. When it became clear that the elves would never stop trying to defend the Sunwell, he killed them. Arthas is doing what is necessary to win this war - a war that the mortals started with their self-righteous attitude towards 'being alive' and 'having free will' or something stupid like that. The mortals had no right to dictate to the Scourge what resources they could gather, when, or why. Mortal aggression started this, and Arthas is taking the necessary steps to ensure that the Scourge wins.
And if your stomache churns at the thought of civilians being killed in Quel'thalas, I have two points for you. First, it was the High Elves' decision to house their civilians in the same place as their important military target, the Sunwell. Second, the shock that the High Elves should feel at that loss should make them seriously reconsider any future actions against the Scourge - and that was exactly the point.
It somehow surprises me how many BE players seem to jump on the Sylvie bandwagon. Turns out they're OK being turned into Sylvie's Scourge to commit a "
Fall of Quel'thalas" style act against another group of people. Hell, Tyrande's creation of the Night Warriors is a beat-for-beat retelling of Liadrin's formation of the Blood Knights; and the NE's attempts to reclaim Darkshore from the Horde is hardcore a mirror to the BE's attempts to re-secure Eversong. ATM the NEs are literally being better BEs than many BE players are. There is something ironic about that lol!
Who the !@#$ is jumping ship? In all of the 'Who are you with?' threads, there's more support for Sylvanas than Saurfang. People are fed up with this plot, they don't care about who is or isn't in the 'right' - the 'wrongs' here are bull%^-* contrivances by a writing team in order to subject the Horde to this stupid internal confusion a second time. People are sticking with Sylvanas because they see Saurfang as a dead end in, and out of, the fiction.
Not that people are wrong to pick Saurfang, I mean the narrative is falling over itself to stuff him into the 'acceptable' position. The fact that it's failing to do so for many is a testament to the idiocy of this whole narrative. Sticking with Sylvanas is opting for no civil war, and hoping everyone makes it out alive. On the Horde, anyway. !@#$ luck for elves this expac.
Sticking with Sylvanas is opting for no civil war
But instead of a Civil War, you're getting a World War.