Yeah basically just have a big feeling that “shadowlands info” that is “coming soon” as per the Ion interview on that show, and Shadowlands in general, is gonna have retcons from the start so
what do you think is gonna get retcon’d? For better or for worse.
Sylvanas had an army of robots that looked exactly like Horde races and nobody from the Horde actually was present at Teldrassil. Also she ate a puppy and an orphan blended together into a smoothie for breakfast that day.
The “Jailer” being an older entity might turn out to be the oldest living Titan than Aman’thul or probably the first titan to be born out of both Light & Void creation in the “beginning”
Then again, what created death? Light & Void during cosmos creation? Wasn’t Argus a titan that governed “death” or was he a death-titan due to being leeched by the Legion?
All in all,
Arthas might not be in the maw but stuck in limbo somewhere in some part of the Shadowlands,
I have a feeling that overall the shadowlands it might also have some strong titan theme relation to it, or perhaps titan, light and death. I’d be greatly bothered if Fel and Void was present again but I can see Void being part of death
A lot of people don’t seem to know what retcons are. Learning new information about a subject isn’t a retcon, it’s simply learning more information. A retcon is the changing of existing information that was canon. There was very little lore about the Shadowland, so everything involving it is new information. As for the Jailer, I highly doubt he is related to the Titans. Titans almost certainly do not go to the Shadowlands when they die. The Jailer and Arbiter were likely created by the God of the WoW universe (which is heavily implied to be Elune through several sources including Blizzard statements) to watch over the realm of the Dead.
I suspect the Titans will be revealed as imitations of the Gods created by the Arbiter(who is the First Full God posing as the Final/Last Full God) through use of the Jailer’s Vesper Magic(the Demo of Bastion at Blizzcon calls the Arcane Damage dealing variant of Death Magic by the term Vesper).
While I’m at it I suspect the Arbiter is Elune and Duran(on the flimsy grounds that the Night Warrior has his Black Eyes) and that Sylvanas will be turned into a 7 eyed Zerg-Protoss Hybrid(those things look suspiciously like Black Goats) in service to Amon.
Sylvanas did Teldrassil single handedly… while she was mind controlled by the Jailer and then she is forgiven and we kill the jailer together
I think Argus was just a titan with death themed abilities. I mean Eonar doesn’t govern all of life. Life existed on worlds she never touched. Such as the parasitic plant life on Draenor.
This would be an example of a “good retcon.”
This isn’t actually a retcon. Just new information.
Didn’t the titan of Argus die? What happens to a dead Titan?
I’m expecting Sylvanas’ motives from Edge of Night onward to be retconned. Which admittedly is a grey area since the cop-out answer of “everything she’s said and thought in canon was a grand deception” exists.
Heh I know. I just think that’s something Blizzard would do to demonize Sylvanas while whitewashing the rest of the Horde. They did it with Garrosh.
I’d rather have this than what we got with the night elves forgiving the horde without them showing any regret or remorse
It just doesn’t make sense…
On that note… maybe this qualifies more as new information… but I see a Flashback scenario that changes some past events as we know them:
Once, as a living Elf, Sylvanas visited Stormwind. She was compelled to bring her Pet Rock “Slammy” on her visit. While there, she had a vision in a dream, where she saw a Human King leading soldiers of many races and nations against her fortress in some dirty wasteland. It made little sense to her… except one phrase: “leave Slammy here… he will smite the mother of your enemy!”
Now she understood why she felt the urge to bring Slammy this time - he never traveled outside of Quelthalas. Though she would be eternally emotionally scarred from their parting, her and Slammy’s fate were intertwined to bring about this moment.
She gave Slammy a gentle pat, and left him on the ground, trusting fate would take its course.
“I only hope Slammy kills my enemy’s mother before he is born - not after. If my enemy is born and then loses his mother to my schemes… that might just make me more of the bad guy!” she ruminated.
Granted, but we’re also going to be interacting with a lot of dead characters. So there’s ample opportunity to encounter retcons.
I’ll be interested to see when things broke in the afterlife and everyone got sent to the Maw.
Because in Edge of Night that’s where Slyvanas goes which sort of makes sense but gets confusing upon learning Kael’Thas didn’t. Like post Wrath Windy certainly wasn’t a good person but Sunstrider did a lot worse and he only goes to Castlevania? That strikes me as a little weird. Even if we take it as gospel Windrunner did arrange the Wrathgate I don’t think that’s worse than betraying your people and trying to doom them and all of Azeroth by summoning Kil’Jaden through the Sunwell.
So does that mean the things been on the fritz since Wrath and everyone who’s died has gone there? Because that’s pretty bad.
I don’t think the Maw is just a hell, but rather it’s a hell for dangerous people to the Shadowlands. Sylvanas was deemed a greater potential danger to the Shadowlands than Kael’thas. Since Sylvanas uses necromantic magic and Kael uses fire magic, I guess I can see why one would be deemed a greater potential threat. The Venthyr were enough to deal with Kael, but Sylvanas may have been more difficult.
That or the val’kyr sent her straight to the Maw and the Jailer. I wouldn’t be surprise if the val’kyr that serve Sylvanas actually serve the Jailer and were the middle men between the Jailer and Sylvnas.
We know this isn’t true because we’ve actively talked to people who’ve died after Wrath. Cairne died afterwards, and we’ve talked to him as late as BfA during the Tauren Heritage armour questchain. Shang Xi died during the Pandaren intro, and we see his ghost. We also kill Gara’jal but encounter his spirit later on in MoP.
I’m pretty sure the “all souls going to the Maw” was said to have started shortly before Legion, but I don’t remember the source or if I’m just remembering speculation as gospel. If true, then only people who died during Legion and BfA end up there.
TBH the only souls I really expect to see, character wise, in the Maw are like Varian, Saurfang and Tirion. Vol’jin’s already escaped the Maw through the “hand of Valor”. Aside from them, only side characters have died.
But it still doesn’t make any sense because things like the warrior class hall and several of Bwonsamdi’s quests involve collecting souls of those that died during Legion/BfA, and we know that several Wild Gods killed in Zandalar’s story are showing up in Ardenweald.
No that’s fine, the val’kyr’s thing is that they intercept souls before they go to the Shadowlands, so Odyn’s val’kyr intercepting their desired souls before they went to the Maw is in line with how Legion explained to us how the Valarjar val’kyr work.
Emerald Nightmare bosses also show up at the end of the raid as souls, so methinks things tied to life like that don’t play by the same rules and the Jailer can’t get them.
But that’s speculation.
Considering that Aman’thul and co were killed by Sargeras I guess they just return to their world soul state.
I believe that happened to Argus as well. Then the other Titans used Argus’ soul to imprison Sargeras.
Isn’t that exactly what happened? We had to subdue him to turn his power from the Legion’s resurrection machine to binding and imprisoning Sargeras. Yeah I just checked, his damaged world soul is floating in the middle of the Seat and they all channel their power into it before it fires off at Sargeras to pull him back.
The Sylvanas we have been accompanying since the end of Wrath of Venom Sylvanas. The real Sylvanas died after her suicide attempt.
Her screams of pain and anguish were so severe that she attracted a being of that shadowy land to sense her in her final moments, and that echo of anguish overwhelmed that shadowy spectator, who was so overcome by the Banshee’s pain and torment that it forgot itself, unconsciously coming copying the memories and attributes of the Banshee Queen and taking her place.
This imitation was imperfect, as all imitations are, and once the powers of death realized one of their own was masquerading as a mortal, they took every operaunity they could to support their sister, including the manipulation of her ascension to Warchief.
Shortly before BfA, Venom Sylvanas remembered who she truly was and dropped any pretense of caring about the realm of the living, or the Horde, intent on entering the shadowlands and rejoining her brethren once more.
The real Sylvanas is there and may return.
It’s actually kind of interesting that, unless Blizzard introduces a concept of ‘Super Death’, there is an argument to be made that Sylvanas could be killed, punished, and get a redemption arc in the same storyline if she were in some way directly manipulated by the Jailer (whether anyone would want such a thing is another discussion, but it is Blizzard).