The ‘barely more’ number of MM Hunters playing is a small percentage of how many MM Hunters there actually are. Quite a few are like me, waiting for a change in the weather, hoping the wind will reverse itself, and blow back the other way.
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No you see there are also thousands of would-be SV hunters just waiting on the sidelines until they introduce dual-wielding SV 
what would bepples be without his one-man crusade against melee hunters
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a Ranged Survival Hunter.
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every morning, i always get a tad excited when i see survival-related topics at the top of the modern day hunter forums (aka not the forums from 20 years ago)… and then a split-second i realize it’s just bettles ://///
on the upside, dude has given more exposure to msurvival than blizzard ever could, lol.
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To be fair, it was ranged for around that long before it became melee so it’s always possible
I don’t agree here, you can have different styles of proc based gameplay but this would get us into some nitty gritty on preferences
And you have 2 specs on warrior, 1 on monk, 1 on DH, 1 on Paladin, 3 on rogue, 1 on shaman, 1 on druid and 2 on DK, and of course msv so there isn’t exactly a shortage of melee options either, you actually still have more melee specs than ranged ones. Plus, up until this expansion, we were actually -1 on ranged dps specs.
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Why did they make a fun ranged spec melee? They could always play dk, feral druid, ret paladin, any rogue spec, 2 warrior specs, 1 monk spec, 1 dh spec, 1 paladin spec, or 1 shaman spec, in fact we still have more melee specs than ranged ones even after evoker was added.
I think it should be the opposite, as it was in the past.
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Wow. Have not been in the Hunter forums, come and take a look, and the same arguments and the usual suspects are here ranting about SV Hunter. Heck, the original WOW manual, which shipped with the original game made an appearance!
Man oh, Man. We’re coming up on 9 years! 9!!! Yet the same old argument keeps being spewed out. By the same people! Talk about dedication to a cause. Welp back to enjoying playing the game as SV.
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Agreed. It’s the same ol’ dog and pony show. The same fraction of players have two RDPS specs, one of which is considered “overpowered” with a “good talent tree”, the other being MM, a spec with a bit of jank and more of the sniper fantasy, and they still want to pull the rug out under a melee spec because “IT USED RANGED AT ONE POINT”
Yeah, and all specs used melee. Grow up.
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Is melee not usable before level 10?
If being ranged was “better for the class” then MM would have more players.
It doesn’t matter, it has low player count now and according to you, that’s indicative of what the player base wants.
But modern SV does use ranged attacks with a ranged weapons. I don’t think you’ve played the spec.
Cool, when does it shift into Bear form rotationally?
They should do that with Arms too. It’d be better for the spec.
According to whom? I didn’t know you could only poison a ranged weapon.
MM has no players now, therefore the hunter player base doesn’t like Ranged weapon fantasies. Just your logic.
Well this is just you wanting to be a bitter narcissist again lol. I talk about things I want for MM all the time in spaces you aren’t even around in, but that’s just your ego talking.
Do you think that speaks of rSV or do you think that means people just want to play super easy, super safe specs, with full mobility?
Name them lol. Remember, according to you full mobility is hardly a perk anymore. MM does comparable damage.
MM doesn’t have players right now, so according to you that means nobody cares about ranged weapons.
Well no, they said no current specs are changing from their roles in the future. There’s as much chance survival goes ranged as marksmanship goes tank lol
Go on and explain how a proc on an auto attack crit (effectively a dot effect) is different than a proc on a target. How does that feel different to the average player?
situation A: my auto shot goes off every 2.5 seconds. when it crits, there’s an X chance something happens
situation B: my dot does damage every 2.5 seconds. there’s an X chance something happens.
How is this relevant at all? Right now, there are an equal number of range and melee. What’s with rSV people forever living in the past?
Not to mention, if “equality” is your concern with spec parity, then you should never be wanting SV to be moved to ranged as we’d be -1 m and +1 range.
why are you lying? there are 13 range and 13 melee
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This is just an assumption. You do not speak for the “community”. Normal survival (melee since legion) is a fresh idea and works much better than the redundant third range spec of yore.
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We only have 12 ranged, 3 mage, 3 lock, 2 hunter, 1 shaman, 1 druid, 1 evoker and 1 priest spec. Are you counting Augmentation Evoker?
They have said a lot of things and done the opposite many, many times.
There were more ways to get procs than just dots with rdps
I’ve said many times that I feel an ideal solution is a 4th spec / choice node that way everyone wins
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Get 'em Nondriel. Sic 'em. Muck 'em up. Hit 'em with it. Break it down. Then proc a Kill Command reset and hit 'em again.
Yes, because it’s a ranged dps? lol?
Well then I am looking forward to tank BM and healer marksmanship.
You’re right, rSV can also get procs by using traps. I’m sure the player base won’t get immediately sick of that.
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It’s not though, it’s a support spec. We also don’t count disc priest as a rdps
Used to yes, we don’t have to have an exact copy of the rsv of old, we can update it to be more modern, I was just trying to point out that you can have different styles of procs
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Right, we count Disct as a healer…
Aug is a DPS spec. It’s classified like that in game and it plays like a DPS spec. There’s no “support” classification.
So take away the traps and DoT procs from rSV and it’s an entirely brand new spec that’s not like old rSV at all lol
Not at all what I said, I said that RSV used to get procs from traps, and that we also could update the spec to be more modern, wanting RSV doesn’t have to mean the exact one from back in the day, but the playstyle, a mobile guerilla fighter
Sure, but they don’t want ranged DPS to be mobile anymore, so that’s not happening.
Well if you don’t tie the procs to DoTs what are you tying it to? It sounds to me like you’re asking for a completely new spec
In PvE, its support contributes almost purely… dps. It cannot fill the role of a healer any more than a Ret or Feral or Enhance or other DPS. Instead, it smoothly fills the functions and responsibilities expected of a DPS in group play. It is literally matched as a DPS.
All that would make it… a DPS.
It’s a DPS that sucks in solo play, but still a DPS.
It functions from range. It is not rotationally obliged to hang out in melee. That makes it ranged.
Augmentation is a rDPS.
That depends. You can have a guerrilla fighter, for instance, who is mobile during uptime but immobile while ‘reloading’ their special/burst actions. If some of those actions ought to be chained for improving effective-uptime, this can reward for sight in PvE much like knowing when to use Aimed Shot would, and in PvP they would at least have compensatory moments of vulnerability if they can’t properly hit and run, but during their periods of engagement (each “hit” before running) they could be entirely mobile.
If that would nonetheless be “mobile” enough for most, then that would satisfy both the functional and thematic wants while still being quite capable of balance.
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Melee fanatics: Hunters were meant to be equally ranged and melee in Classic!
Me: *Links Classic wow manual page showing the ranged DPS intent*
Melee fanatics: Wow, I can’t believe you would use something so old to try to help your argument!
Every time.
By the way, haven’t you done exactly before? Stepped away from the forums for a few weeks, came back, and acted amazed that the debate that has been raging for 7 years didn’t abruptly stop in the few years you were gone?
Yes including dual-wielding. Does that mean the class supports dual-wielding?
MM has proven to be capable of being widely played.
It’s not about having a low player count now. It’s about having a low player count in every tier.
Look at that, a patch where everyone played MM and not the pet specs. Since you seem to hyper-focus on individual tiers instead of broader trends, does this mean people clearly want a strong ranged weapon spec instead of pet specs?
Nice. Can I do 100% of my damage with the ranged weapon and ranged attacks?
It uses it defensively; it also uses Cat form for DPS.
Makes sense because shapeshifting is the iconic part of the class.
Arms has a coherent and solid melee identity unlike SV.
It makes a lot more sense and it’s more practical to do it for a ranged weapon.
Did you know the word “toxin” derives from the Greek τόξο (toxo) which means bow? I wonder why.
MM has proven to be capable of being widely played.
You copy the talk people use for SV and apply it to MM. Most people want improvements and tweaks to MM. However most don’t say “MM is an irredeemable mess of a spec that needs a floor-to-ceiling rework”. You evidently enjoy the deflection. Look how much of your argument about SV is deflecting to MM.
I think Hunters like ranged specs including RSV. I know you look down on Hunters for that, but it is the foundation of the class and what most of its players want.
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Lower single target damage
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DPS loss when using a pet for survivability or bloodlust
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DPS loss on movement
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AoE with low target cap
And now it seems to do less cooldown burst than BM too due to Call of the Wild. That was the one thing it had on BM and now that’s gone. Good for BM, but Trueshot needs to be a lot stronger than it is.
In this mythic + season, the following dungeons tend to have a large opening trash pull with bloodlust:
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Darkheart Thicket
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Throne of the Tides
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Dawn of the Infinite (both dungeons)
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Atal’Dazar
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Everbloom
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Blackrook Hold
MM is at a disadvantage in all of those, because it loses DPS to the target cap on Trick Shots and loses DPS to using a pet to lust. Better hope someone else has lust, I guess.
They also said in Cataclysm that they wanted Hunters to focus on their identity as a ranged DPS, and in MoP they removed the melee weapon entirely. Yet before MoP was even over some new developers got in and melee Hunter was already in the works.
A change in leadership, which is something that should have been done a long time ago, can lead to a change in direction.
Oh, really? Because ranged SV was usually a very widely enjoyed spec while melee SV is usually among last place in representation.
What’s your metric for “works better”?
How is a ranged spec redundant yet a melee spec is useful to the class? What good is a melee spec when our ranged specs can fight in melee?
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