Don’t get mad because I labeled a group? Sometimes you don’t have to be part of “that group” to know it’s not civil to bad mouth a group. Courtesy - it can go a long way.
It doesn’t show a decrease in subs towards the end of the xpac. During the golden age of WoW it shows there wasn’t a decrease in subs at all.
You’re saying that the reason Blizzard changed things is because people stopped raiding when they got BIS is based on . . . nothing. Subs increased or stayed steady. Only when Cata hit did subs decline throughout the expansion - except for the very end. And take a look at that cliff dive at the beginning of WoD . . .
Players don’t leave when they get BIS if there’s end game content; if the xpac is alt friendly and if the PvP is good. They didn’t and they still wouldn’t.
The reason, and the ONLY reason, that gearing has changed is because it saves resources. That’s it. Creating multiple tier sets as well as multiple sets of dungeon gear for so many classes and specs is not cost effective. And it takes work and thought. Blizzard is committed to putting out the least amount of game for the least amount of money for the maximum amount of profit.
That’s all there is to it. And that’s why it won’t change.
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This is the only mmo you’ve played before isn’t it?
People leave all the time once they hit the end of content, it’s been an industry trend for mmos for years now.
Bellular’s vid was a good watch. He gets it.
Dear Blizzard: You already have a fast based ARPG in diablo. Stop trying to make WoW one and return the game to a slower, more immerse world we can have adventures in.
The market you’re chasing has MUCH better options with FAR better balancing. The more you bend WoW in that direction the higher the chance it’ll eventually break.
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You are very bad at reading people.
Of course people come and go, and not just because they get BIS. The blanket statement that people leave when they get BIS is patently untrue. Look at the graph. WoW continued to gain subs or hold steady for over 6 years. And yet you claim that all these people with BIS left? Where does it show that? It doesn’t.
It wasn’t until Cata hit that the sub numbers dropped, and the biggest dip was towards the beginning of the xpac. That sure wasn’t due to people getting BIS.
It doesn’t take a lot of brain power to figure out that people will continue to play if they’re having fun. They’ll gear up alts. They’ll PvP. They’ll farm achievements or mounts.
If players love the game and are having fun, why would they leave?
Show me the numbers where people left when BT was cleared, or Sunwell, or Naxx or ICC. Go ahead. Show me this “trend.” I want to see the numbers.
You can’t. All you can do is snip about how many MMO’s people have played.
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You’re quite hilarious if you think people just stuck around doing the same thing over and over again after clearing raids. But hey, you’e looking at an arbitrary graph and assuming you know why people left, without actually talking to those people, so not actually surprised.
The trend is right in front of you, look at the explosive growth of the MMO genre in the last ten years, we went from a handful of MMOs with WoW as king of the hill to several viable contenders. You can check out any mmo on the market (playing 4 different ones myself right now) and in all of them you’ll find people who come from WoW and play when content dries up in WoW.
I don’t need numbers to show the trend, it’s obvious to anyone paying attention. It’s obvious to any who bother to look at the number of companies investing in the genre, new IPs releasing like clockwork, new IPs being fleshed out to offer different experiences for different players to suit their playstyles.
But sure, let’s go with your argument.
As for people leaving when they get BiS, you really should pay more attention to the people around you, get out more, experience different games, different communities. Because your assumption that this isn’t a reason people dip from a game inbetween patches is absolutely hilarious.
You are right.
Does he pay you to shill him? Or do you do this for free?
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You were discussing it with me and actually I agree with him.
You’re right. Everyone quit when they got their BIS. That’s why the early xpacs were empty at the end and BFA is packed with 12 million players.
You really should stop posting with your “feelings.”
I played with BIS with the same people all through WRATH. Didn’t quit or “dip out” between patches. Wasn’t really a thing back then.
Players weren’t cyclical until Ion suggested they were. He also said they removed the PvP vendors because people couldn’t find them. So it all must be true.
https://venturebeat.com/2015/05/14/dear-world-of-warcraft-players-heres-why-you-should-stay-love-blizzard/view-all/
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I disagree that you need 445 gear for picking up 10 shards off the ground. It should be a more natural progression of dungeons > heroic dungeons > mythic dungeons > m+ dungeons with the same sort of tier as raids than just do some WQ, kill a world boss, do a heroic WF, and suddenly think you’re ready to do a +9 key that you have 0 experience in.
Best gear should come from the hardest content and shouldn’t be watered down for casuals.
Well it may surprise you but I agree you don’t need gear to pick up 10 shards off the ground. However, you do need gear to do those assaults and those dailies in uldum and the vale within a reasonable length of time.
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I think the way that most people interpret BiS items is stupid. There shouldn’t be “one” item that’s the best for you in every single situation, otherwise there would be no point to stats. There should be “best items for specific situations”. For example, having items that boost your dps a lot is fine, but if it lacks stamina, then it might hurt you in pvp, so you might want to prioritize that amongst other things. Also taking into account armor penetration, resistances, resilience, spell penetration, etc.
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That’s why there was PvP gear (until players got stupid and couldn’t find the vendors, of course) and why gemming and enchants mattered.
It was all fine until it wasn’t.
“Deterministic Gearing”, the new buzzword for the next few months.
You’re hilarious and a little bit sad.
You keep shifting your position with every post.
You don’t like the changes. Good for you.
Do you have ideas to bring about positive change or more complaints?
The world is waiting with baited breath!
I haven’t changed my position on anything. But you always did live in your own make believe world. And such a fact hater!
BTW, no, I’m not going to be posting any ideas to bring about positive change. Along with millions of others over the years - been there done that.
I’m just here to complain. 
In my opinion, even stripping away the multiple systems working together in gearing, (which i would like in theory, but it kinda put me off a little for not being manual upgrades), i don’t see the difference in getting the gear you really want. I don’t see how Classic is any better in that regard since both of the systems at it’s bare facedness revolves around RNG.
A little of it is fine, but when you start putting Legendaries behind it, it gets a little annoying. (Though if it’s in Single-Player games, i can always mod the drop rate/cheat to get them, so that’s just a moot point in single-player games really. Unless it’s Blizzard games. Always online DRM single-player games with no modding, am i right? 
)
And if you put it behind super tough challenges like raid bosses,
(and before somebody laughs at that idea, remember the people who done it even on level 58's or such has been practicing for a **decade** on private servers, so you honestly can't just walk in there as complete noob who don't know what to do or never have been in a raid (or even heard of DBM) and blow the whole place up in one blink. let alone a level 1 mob.Though feel free to find that rare example and show it to me, even though i would be surprised if it actually happens, it would still be that, a rare example)
But that’s just me, i just like killing the boss who happen to have the “Helmet of smelling water” and viola, he drops that, i wear it and that’s it. I just like knowing the reward is guaranteed and that drives me forward, hence why i got the bee mount. The very least is make animals drops at least 1 hoof for you every time you have to do that silly quest. Really makes no sense for why i can’t loot a hoof if the game tells me i need hoofs and a random number said i can’t have a hoof. Seriously, Why is this a thing in Video games? 
Yea, grinds aren’t hard, but neither are RNGs if you really think about it.
Not sure how much room you have to talk about misleading, but i digress.
I never watched much of Bellular to begin with, so can you take the time to explain to me how is he providing false and misleading information in order to convince others that his view is the only way to see things?
And don’t worry about the crap above your comment, it’s meant for the OP.
I agree with him to an extent. While it was nice to know when you got a BIS item, it sucked knowing that certain content was worthless because it didn’t have it.
Really? We were having this exact same discussion at the start of Legion… The deterministic vs RNG gearing system has been discussed on this forum for about 2-3 years at this point.
A lot of the same points are brought up repeatedly ad nauseum.
Positives of RNG gearing:
- You always have something to do.
- Everything has the chance to reward you so helping your friends in lesser content is still somewhat beneficial to you.
- You get a hit of dopamine when you win the loot lottery.
Positives of determined gearing:
- You have a defined goal.
- With the defined goal, you have a defined path to progression.
- You get a sense of accomplishment when you achieve your goal.
Really what it comes down to is what type of player you are. Are you the type of player that enjoys looking up loot lists and figuring out where you want to go to progress? Or are you the type of player that likes to dive into the content and make the best out of what you receive?
When you played D2, did you pre-plan your character skills? Or did you build what you thought would be fun as you went along?
At the end of the day that’s what this entire discussion comes down to. Do you like structure and order, or do you just want play the game and not think about that (was going to say chaos, but I thought sounded a bit too dramatic lol).
Me personally, I like structure. I like looking things up and figuring out what’s the best way to progress my character. Sure I sometimes just dive in, but back in BC… I’d even build “BiS” sets (or I thought they were bis at least) for each PvP bracket as I leveled. My goal was to be as powerful as possible (aside from twinks) when I hit the max level of the bracket (19, 29, 39, etc). That was as much a part of the game for me as the game itself.
Whereas now… Other than very specific pieces of gear (certain trinkets, weapons, or on-use items like the mage mechagon wrists)… I have no idea where my next upgrade will come from. I have no idea where most of my current items came from. All that means for me… is that a part of the game died for me. (oh and I made this statement WELL before preach did in that TF video… so back off before calling me a parrot).
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