Right back at you? Can we all scour months of wowlogs for a wipe to derail threads? Paladins don’t tank in classic without a group to carry them.
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It all depends on if you’re in a Meta gaming guild or a non meta gaming guild, if your guild is full on BIS META then yea, you’re going holy at 60 if not it’ll depend on how many paladins you have.
https ://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QZCncW6hHDda98Nb#type=summary&fight=29
Bro that was 5 days ago for you. How does anyone wipe twice on EBONROC 4 months into the tier?
Sit down kid, I’d take a Paladin with a brain over any of your Warriors. Any class will be viable with a smart player at the keyboard. Conversely, even the best classes on paper are trash with a stupid person at the keyboard.
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Paladins aren’t even the best at doing this; you can’t even hold a light to druids when it comes to dungeon tanking. Any tank with Dynamite or Immolation Oil is as effective for AoE threat. If you don’t feel like being an engineer, you can use Crystal Charge instead of dynamite, and anyone can use holy water for undead groups.
All that a prot paladin is bringing to the table is poor resource management and poor threat tools compared to warriors and druids. You can’t pretend your way around the itemization that doesn’t exist for prot paladins in vanilla.
Butt pulls, and having specific players unable to attend that night. Go ahead and pull every log and find some way to hurl personal insults instead of participating in the discussion. It’s pathetic.
It’s funny that you would see an Ebonroc shadowflame wipe and assume that the tanks decided to face him towards the raid rather than that a DPS pulled threat right on a buffet. If you had stepped foot into BWL, you probably wouldn’t have made such a silly assumption.
Dude. lol
I laughed at the sick burns but seriously, a prot paladin has no business tanking a classic WoW raid, period. There are maybe 1-2 fights where a prot paladin could be useful. Otherwise, they are better off healing.
My guild used a prot paladin to tank Garr adds while we burned the boss… once. That’s about all I can say for the fights we have available right now. A tank that can’t taunt or generate snap aggro is not helpful, not to mention the reliance on a small mana pool and expensive spells.
Yes that guy wiped on Ebonroc, but you’re still wrong.
Obviously the point was to say the class matters a lot less than the person playing it. A good player will be an asset to their team no matter what class they are playing. It just so happened that your logs were the perfect example of this point. A Paladin who knows how to not point the boss at the raid for Shadowflame will take a raid team further than a Warrior who doesn’t.
A wipe caused by DPS not watching threat between buffets and tank swaps on ebonroc is a perfect example that bad players are bad and therefore paladin tanks are good if they are good players? I guess so. You’re not actually making a point beyond “good is good and bad is bad”. Congratulations, you stated the obvious. This good shadowpriest or boomkin will out dps the bad mage. Holy cow, you’re a genius.
What you’ve failed to do is participate in any discussion surrounding prot paladin tools and play style to defend the class and spec. You’re clown shoes, bro.
The tanks must have faced ebonroc right into the raid? How dumb are you?
Prot paladins are fine if you understand what types of fights they simply don’t have proper tools to deal with. (Looking at you ebon.)
In dungeons the mana bar can create forced downtimes compared to other tanks, but that only matters if your group is hitting a certain pace.
And yeah, they struggle with certain dungeon bosses too because of threat wiping mechanics.
You are so wrong about that… I never had mana problems tanking, and I tanked my way to 60 as full prot… And when you do have to drink, youre usually drinking with the healers casters and hunters anyway…
No one will ever pull threat from you in 5 mans
There is no need to blow your load every pull… and you can throw on SoW once you build enough threat…
As soon as I would log on I would have people asking me to come tank… I made so many friends…
Raids are different though, raids you will most likely be healing… But we are kings of tanking 5 mans…
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Reading threads like these is fun from the perspective of someone who hasn’t healed a single instance since level 25.
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i think prot pally is perfectly fine for tanking 5 mans. engineering makes a huge difference.
Holy paladins bring all relevant buffs
You can clear any of these raids with 30 people. Anything is viable
Ret is never good for anything.
Prot technically is BiS for AOE tanking and depending on the fight can be highest single target threat as well…But it’s niche because no taunt and no ability to control agro on specific targets
if you ahve 12 warriors in your raid and start spamming gbok on them…You will generate more agro than anything else in the game by a wide margin. But you’ll agro everything on the table so you can’t use that every fight.
So in theory, prot paladin is optimal in many fights for single target threat (assuming you have enough of one class to spam greater blessing of kings). But in practice peopel don’t do it because warriors are better all around and more versatile.
Hard to justify gearing the paladin prot tank when he can’t MT many fights and has no mitigation CD’s that don’t drop threat
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For helping raids, and pre-TBC, this is just how it is.
But still, go out and play what you want.
I play Prot and rock the 5-man, but am fine with spamming heal in raids + coordinate support auras. The last thing I want is aggro.
Since you brought it up…moonkins in raids, in my opinion, are most valuable as Faerie Fire machines and bird batteries. Nothing wrong with that.
Yet they still rock 5mans, too.
So, playing non Feral is not only viable, but fun.
Speaking out of self preservation…gearing prot pally is great for 5mans and close knit guilds. For every 4,315 drops that rightfully go elsewhere, that ONE, is sweet. Its all relative.
Seriously. Pre-TBC, Pallys have to hustle for gear. Hey at least Ret pally got the streamerYT boost which created this rumor they are entitled to drops. PR at its finest. Milk that, Rets.
You get different answers because everyone’s experience is different. Some guilds don’t care about minmaxing to the extent that they pidgeon hole classes, others do.
All content in Vanilla can be downed without min-maxing. The only hard part is finding a guild chill enough to just play.
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Paladin is one of the incomplete classes of Vanilla, prot and ret are both pretty meme and are pretty mediocre, but Holy is considered god-tier so not only are two of your specs bad one of them is sought after. To that extent getting yourself into a guild as a prot or ret paladin is challenging, but not impossible. You will probably have to spend some time trying to find a halfway decent guild that will let you raid as ret.
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Paladins are healers at the end game. Any other than that we call it meme spec and most of raid teams dont pick meme specs, or take 1 or 2 for buffs or so. Paladins arent great at PvP also if u want to do dmg until they get some gear, but still needs a lot more gear than the others. U can lvl with retri but that’s it. But if u can find a guild that takes u as dmg, feel free to play as u want. Only tanks dont work at the endgame bcause they dont have taunt, but still some guilds take 1 retri with a shield to help with large pats.
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Ret is actually pretty good if you know what you’re doing and can put out some pretty big numbers.
Nope. shoulda brought a warrior or rogue
lol pallys are great at being a pocket healer at pvp also a great healer at pve with all the buffs. they arent good at the rest though