Gosh… all these posts really do remind me how cancer and idiotic some of the class design was. Paladin tanks and no taunt…haha so so flawed. How did I even play vanilla. Safe to say I’ll never go back to that. I am happy with bfa and been a casual gamer. Although if they release WoD or Cata only servers ill go back to that in a heartbeat. Good luck fellas.
Taunt is only needed when you group with Warlocks. Warriors were expected to tank it if they drew aggro. Everyone else was expected to use their threat reducer ability.
And for Warlocks, you threw BoP on them or expected them to die due to Soulstone (if they had it on them).
Paladin tanking is literally herding cats. However, they were easily herded cats if they were any good.
REMEMBER:
If the tank dies, it is THE HEALER at fault.
If the healer dies, it is THE TANK at fault.
If the DPS dies, the DPS AND ONLY THE DPS are at fault.
You can prot tank in dungeons. You can bear off tank in raids. You can ret, you can feral dps. You just need to put in extra effort.
To raid as ret or feral, you need to find a guild, look up guides, farm extra mats. You won’t be top dps, but in a raid of 40 people you will have your use.
Before complaining and asking for the easy way out – which is blizzard changing things for you, look things up and put in the effort. If you don’t want to do that then don’t play those classes or just don’t play classic.
BFA is perfect for those who want to play whatever they want and be exactly the same as everyone else while putting in absolutely no effort into it.
It’s because of a few reasons.
Ret is literally the worst dps in the game.
Moonkin takes up 2 debuff slots which on release of actual classic there was only 8 total debuff slots. Moonkin is also very low dps in comparison the other casters.
Feral is in the same boat, it wasn’t very good and it takes up debuff slots.
Spriests for instance we’re pretty solid but since they take up debuff slots you only used 1 for the shadow weaving debuff that makes it so the raid boss takes 15% more shadow damage and you stack 6 or so locks spamming shadow bolts.
So say the priest was 600 dps but the 6 locks are doing 200 more dps on total because the debuff. That Spriest is essentially doing 800 dps which is massive in MC and BWL.
Which is why alliance had better progression in PVE. Pallys brought salavation to the whole raid making everyone have 30% less threat.
Ret was horrible DPS because we expected them to be AP stackers. Spelladin is proving right now that we were wrong…horribly wrong.
They fixed all of this in Vanilla’s expansion pack.
It’s like you’ve never played a pally… clearly you’ll be able to tank or dps dungeons at 60. You just won’t be picked for progression raiding as anything but a healer.
Pre-40, you wear whatever junk you want, and after 40 you wear plate for non-raiding and cloth for raid healing, because cloth has better +healing than plate.
But a pally tank is really quite garbage in situations where you need to pull threat off of another tank, as there is no taunt for them in vanilla/classic. It’s pretty much entirely for AoE farming stuff without getting murdered like ret does.
No joke on the Ret DPS situation. I was levelling in the beta as ret, got tired of getting murdered by every mob ever, and swapped to holy and now have no problems. And that was at lvl 18.
You need a little background on what it was like back in 2004.
The primary MMO before WoW was called Everquest.
Everquest was a game in which only 3 of 14 classes were healers. Three were tanks, and the rest dps/utility. This was fine in theory, but in everquest, it quickly became the case that one of those classes could heal. The Cleric.
That was one of the biggest complaints players had about EQ (that, and a lack of instanced content, a lack of quests, and bonkers leveling time). You could do single group content with any of the three tank classes, but only clerics could heal an XP group (let alone a raid). This led to an absolutely crazy meta, that Sony fed into by building new expansions to fit the current meta. They never really fixed the problem (at least up until WoW came out). They tried a little, Druids and Shamans got better heals, but even a level 70 druid’s best heal still did less, and cost more than the lowly level 39 cleric spell “Complete Healing”.
WoW wasn’t finished when it was released. That much is obvious in the fact that everyone but Shamans got a QoL pass. Heck, hunters didn’t even have talents in beta! But, I think that Blizzard made healers a priority because their target audience was coming into it used to a system where “Only clerics can heal” and they wanted to make it obvious to people that this was NOT the case for WoW (Priests being the obvious parallel to EQ clerics.)
As for your requests… those things aren’t happening, there’s not time, there’s not a unanimous push behind it, and they’ve said repeatedly that they’re not doing any balance changes (and adding gear, or changing stats would definitely amount to that). Maybe they’ll happen if new 60 content comes after naxx. Otherwise, you’re just going to have to wait for TBC servers or go play bfa.
I do believe there will be fights and mechanics that you would just want to bring a warrior on anyway. But no classes can just do 1 thing. Probably the toughest thing you could try is being a main tank druid
No one can force you into anything. Stay true to your cause. Your gear doesn’t define you, you do! Walk with the light!
you’re going to want to retract that statement soon my friend…
you clearly need to git gud bro…
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Dude, nobody is going to make you heal. Play what you want and find a guild that is cool with your RET/Feral/CritChicken. This forum is full of toxic trolls that think there going to be in Method or some S#$%.
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Then don’t.
We will see.
I wouldnt hold my breathe. Ret is trash in pve.
By all means play it, im not saying dont play what you want but dont have these illusions that you will be good dps.
Mascot!
U can /dance in the background and yell some stuff to keep morale high!
math is math dude and our theories have been proven on the Classic Beta - but the reality is that we were doing it all wrong 15 years ago
and kevin jordan even said it to me himself when I interviewed him
https://countdowntoclassic.com/2019/04/17/episode-100-the-journey-from-nostalrius-to-classic-kevin-jordan-on-paladins-josh-chooses-a-region-hardcore-guild-onslaught/#more-1358
- Calling Countdown #2 – Kevin Jordan On Paladins (With Theloras) – 1:13:45
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“Gitting gud” doesn’t really solve the issue of ret pallies taking as much damage as holy pallies while doing the same dps (before seal of command - obv at 22+ ret is better).
The fact remains, however, that at 60, ret pally is by far the lowest dps, even in that spelladin gear (which just makes it less bad, not amazing).
Luckily most Raid Bosses are taunt immune so this is a moot issue. The lack of Taunt is more about not having safety net for dumb DPS who pull aggro but that’s what BoP is for.
The big thing to remember is in Vanilla we played a Class and not a spec like we do now. You don’t play a Ret or Prot Paladin you play a Paladin. Paladins have heals, cleanse, Blessings and Auras no matter how they divvy up their talents and are expected to use all of them when needed in a Raid.
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