I just dont get it

Esimpure-whitemane · July 25, 2020, 4:41am

It extends the content, that’s about it. It keeps players grinding.

Thèón-emerald-dream · July 25, 2020, 4:42am

Marksman. Without azerite traits the spec would legit do nothing.

anon89577673 · July 25, 2020, 4:43am

People hated WoD.

Welcome to Vanilla WoW.

People hated WoD AND Homogenous classes.

Rsweet-thunderfury · July 25, 2020, 4:43am

Pretty much everything but DH

Thèón-emerald-dream · July 25, 2020, 4:44am

These reasons aren’t why WoD was hated.

Ddzz-illidan · July 25, 2020, 4:45am

Ralph contradicts ralph

External power rental systems need to go

Especially ones that instead of being the final 10% of your character’s power end up being 50% making them mandatory for all serious content.

-First it was azerite, then essences, now rng corrupted gear. AND NONE OF THEM WERE EASY TO AQUIRE.
Azerite gear were either RNG or grinded through timegated weekly m+ caches reward
-Essences were extremely grindy, forcing people to do content they hated and many times were also timegated for almost a month or more.
-Corrupted gear with no vendor are completely RNG YET CAN GIVE YOU UP TO 20K dps boost and more for some classes. They are locked behind a huge rng aka keep grinding until you get them lol.

Our characters main source of power is no longer gear and abilities, it locked behind rental systems that are forcing ridiculous grinds while many of the timegated to desperately keep players playing.

Meanwhile in Swtor you get your set pieces and most gear early on within a week, that is 90% of your character’s power, then the last 10% comes fro, bis gear parts and amplifiers which take some time to grind but not having them isn’t a big deal, and when you get them you get a great sense of accomplishment since they last for mot of the expansion and also you can gear a ton of fun alts.

And let’s check the math based on blood mallet for those that care about numbers, my dps when I was playing via sim was somewhere above 30k but that included 1 major essence and 3 minors(1 being from the major) and now there’s a 4th minor from the new slot.

So for frost dk we check the best for 8.3 and they are
8k from world vein major
4K from world vein minor
4K from memory of lucid dreams minor
4K from breath of the dying minor
3k fro, blood of the enemy minor

Then let’s check corrupted gear
30k from infinite stars, with 25% nerf it ll be 22k
14k from echoing void

So overall through the external sources(I am not even gonna bother with azerite) the total dps is 59k, .(with 2 corrupted items, hell even one leads to 45k dps boost. At the end of the expac it ll be more)
Obviously this is sim dps under best conditions but the fact that a character’s performance is MOSTLY locked behind external systems that are both time gates and extremely grindy and also often grindy from content you don’t enjoy

If these systems design continue to shadowlands then I am not even gonna bother, Swtor ftw where I can play alts and have fun in any content without being forced into ridiculous timegated grinds, I can just have fun.

anon89577673 · July 25, 2020, 4:45am

Yes, it was.

The whole flying debacle was between entitled children. That doesn’t count.

Thèón-emerald-dream · July 25, 2020, 4:46am

No, it really wasn’t.

Agreed. The flight “issue” was a non-issue.

anon89577673 · July 25, 2020, 4:48am

Yea, it was. Not everyone is ‘Raid or Die’. WoD was horrible on many, many fronts. Chief among them was the pruning, only receiving a talent tier, and the typical ‘my class is ruined’ shpiel. All of that led to Legion.

Thèón-emerald-dream · July 25, 2020, 4:50am

And that’s the reason WoD was hated. Because it was either raid, or do PvP. There was nothing else to do. For PvP players, WoD was great! But for those PvE players who couldn’t do anything outside of the raid? It sucked.

Sure, the pruning wasnt good, but that is not why people hated WoD.

My WoD schedule was:
Log on
Join guild group
Raid 3 hours
Log off
Repeat 3x a week.

Life-bleeding-hollow · July 25, 2020, 4:51am

People hated the lack of content in WoD, but for the most part, liked classes.
Classes were fine in WoD and I still wonder why they bothered to revamp them in Legion.

Esimpure-whitemane · July 25, 2020, 4:51am

Bloat is a myth and pruning was a garbage idea. Hence why one of the main selling points is giving us abilities back that we shouldn’t have had removed ever - hence why nobody should be grateful.

Wigglytüff-stormrage · July 25, 2020, 4:53am

Because they figured out that if you just kept adding permanent abilities, it wouldn’t be very long until your playerbase was whining incessantly about them being pruned away. I assume they feel that the incessant whining about this is the better alternative, because at least it leaves them with some place to go for the next expansion.

People need to stop thinking of Covenants as extra systems and think of them as what they actually are: part of your class for this expansion.

anon89577673 · July 25, 2020, 4:53am

Could’ve fooled me back in the day in General Discussion. It seemed like a hotter topic than Trashran.

Aknor-kilrogg · July 25, 2020, 4:53am

What changed Ralph?!?!?!

External power rental systems need to go

Especially ones that instead of being the final 10% of your character’s power end up being 50% making them mandatory for all serious content.

-First it was azerite, then essences, now rng corrupted gear. AND NONE OF THEM WERE EASY TO AQUIRE.
Azerite gear were either RNG or grinded through timegated weekly m+ caches reward
-Essences were extremely grindy, forcing people to do content they hated and many times were also timegated for almost a month or more.
-Corrupted gear with no vendor are completely RNG YET CAN GIVE YOU UP TO 20K dps boost and more for some classes. They are locked behind a huge rng aka keep grinding until you get them lol.

Our characters main source of power is no longer gear and abilities, it locked behind rental systems that are forcing ridiculous grinds while many of the timegated to desperately keep players playing.

Meanwhile in Swtor you get your set pieces and most gear early on within a week, that is 90% of your character’s power, then the last 10% comes fro, bis gear parts and amplifiers which take some time to grind but not having them isn’t a big deal, and when you get them you get a great sense of accomplishment since they last for mot of the expansion and also you can gear a ton of fun alts.

And let’s check the math based on blood mallet for those that care about numbers, my dps when I was playing via sim was somewhere above 30k but that included 1 major essence and 3 minors(1 being from the major) and now there’s a 4th minor from the new slot.

So for frost dk we check the best for 8.3 and they are
8k from world vein major
4K from world vein minor
4K from memory of lucid dreams minor
4K from breath of the dying minor
3k fro, blood of the enemy minor

Then let’s check corrupted gear
30k from infinite stars, with 25% nerf it ll be 22k
14k from echoing void

So overall through the external sources(I am not even gonna bother with azerite) the total dps is 59k, .(with 2 corrupted items, hell even one leads to 45k dps boost. At the end of the expac it ll be more)
Obviously this is sim dps under best conditions but the fact that a character’s performance is MOSTLY locked behind external systems that are both time gates and extremely grindy and also often grindy from content you don’t enjoy

If these systems design continue to shadowlands then I am not even gonna bother, Swtor ftw where I can play alts and have fun in any content without being forced into ridiculous timegated grinds, I can just have fun.

Thèón-emerald-dream · July 25, 2020, 4:54am

You’re only fooling yourself.

anon89577673 · July 25, 2020, 4:54am

So you must not of been around then. Ok.

Kaurmine-area-52 · July 25, 2020, 4:56am

It’s either borrowed power or an inevitable pruning You can’t keep adding stuff to the game endlessly so borrowed power systems lets them add stuff and then throw it away.

anon89577673 · July 25, 2020, 4:57am

It’s a clever way of finding out what works and grandfathering some of it over into the next expansion as Talents or a permanent ability.

Esimpure-whitemane · July 25, 2020, 4:57am

Those who PvP’d didn’t. Also, WoD was good while leveling and still had good class design - but it was phoned in for Legion.

What I find is a lot of people loved Legion, but a lot of terrible systems came from Legion.

This is unrelated. MoP had amazing class design and not much borrowed power.

What? There’s more variety in specs in vanilla than there is in live.

Pity that’s basically what we have still.