We do try that sometimes, but it always fails miserably. We almost instantly lose SHGY when we try that, which means that now the nearest GY is Stormpike GY and the Icewing Bunker chokepoint can be held against us very easily. Those Alliance who are at SFGY are slowly whittled down because they can’t be reinforced and it takes 5 minutes to hard cap the GY. Once SHGY is hard capped, there isn’t any realistic way that Alliance can take it back.
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Horde is gonna call you a turn coat and say you don’t know what you’re talking about. AV is horde rigged, but the insane think that its fairly laid out and that the alliance has s chance. Its why alliance don’t play AV any more because it is so jacked. There is an earlier map version where the horde cave is way further back, if they roll back to that map version then the games would be more balanced, and still horde favored.
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I grinded 2 alts the rest of the way to exalted this weekend, and I 100% agree. There were times the Ally completely outplayed us and I still never lost a game. Even when they got Snowfall, established combat dominance, got IBGY, slowly but surely we got them all back as they got spread too thin by trying to accomplish anything.
It’s like Horde have a very easy time holding anything they take via advance because of the choke points, and Alliance have an uphill battle where every small victory makes the next more difficult.
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Then I’ll assume I’m about on par with my Horde rep estimate, probably closer to 1k for Horde than 1.5k.
Not saying I don’t believe you, but I haven’t actually had a single game like this. I see games where we get 200-300 HKs because Alliance put up a decent fight, but so far none of the Horde games have been very interested in going out of their way to farm HKs like that because DRs remove reason to do so. Honestly, by the time you get through SHGY you’ve significantly reduced the amount of honor you’re getting out of kills.
Horde has a lot of people screaming about how to maximize honor by keeping generals alive, towers capped, mines taken, “Ice Daddy” summoned, etc.
Even if you assume 10 minute queue times that adds about 6 hours so I’d say it’s pretty reasonable to assume the AV exalted grind for Horde is still at least a little worse, if not noticeably worse. The games you talk about getting locked into for an hour also means Horde get locked into it as well.
At the end of the day current AV is basically just a solo honor grind method for Horde (maybe Alliance too, but IDK) and a rep grind that sucks for both you’re just picking your poison. If you fix AV to be perfectly balanced that might help Horde queues a bit, but when you’re looking at 2 hour queues as it stands with 1 hour at best during AV weekend I can’t imagine the impact of Alliance wanting to queue into a balanced map to offset the lose of “100%” wins. You’d almost assuredly be making the Horde exalted grind infinitely worse.
Not that I don’t believe you but I have played about 20 Alterac Valleys and never have seen the Alliance attempt to complete the game with a win. All of the games have been where the Alliance defend SHGY instead of going to try to complete objectives of the battle. Your description of what happens is faulty as in your mentioning of only the chokepoint and the graveyards (GYs) without the objectives.
The point I am making is that Alliance aren’t attempting to take out objectives because most of the player base wants a loss. Why would this be? Because they firmly believe the gaming company will make a change to benefit them and get back to a 7 minute rush win for them. All they have to do is keep losing then show the stats to the gaming company to try to make the change happen.
I’m here to tell you that the gaming company is not going to change the Horde starting position back in WoW Classic. This happened in retail during the Burning Crusade expansion and led to the Alliance winning almost all Alterac Valley battles. The Horde didn’t force a 100% statistically turtle game by focusing on the graveyards. The Horde went for the rush win.
This all boils down to the issue at hand. The Alliance 100% of all 20 Alterac Valley games I’ve been in have defended SHGY instead of going for objectives. If you focus on GYs instead of the objectives you will end up losing.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA I hope you are trolling.
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Alliance have to defend SHGY at the same time as they take out any objectives. If Alliance loses SHGY before they have hard capped any GY south of the IWB choke point, they hard lose. Period. So we have to keep at least some people defending SHGY. There are times where we say screw it and try without defending SHGY at all, but that always ends horribly just due to attrition. All horde has to do is soft cap SHGY and the game is over. SPGY is a loooong way from any of the objectives. In fact, if we don’t have SHGY and die around Galv, we respawn all the way back at DB.
We’ve tried all sorts of stuff other than just defending SHGY. We’ve tried rushing everyone to IBGY, to FWGY, rushing Drek, rushing RH. It always fails because we can’t reinforce.
The only game I’ve ever won, we were up against an absolutely incompetent Horde team. We smashed them repeatedly in FoS, over and over, but couldn’t take IBGY due to cave spawns. We pulled back into FoS and just kept smashing Horde over and over again while a team of stealthies went south and capped FWGY. That only worked because the absolutely incompetent Horde team ignored the fact that they had people capping FWGY in their rear and never mounted a serious push to retake it. Once FWGY was hard capped, we shoved IBGY hard, died, then ghost walked down and rezzed at FWGY. GG
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Are you serious? You really think that the average player decides to auto lose in AV so that someday, maybe, Blizzard might make some change so that they can win…if they could already just win fairly easily? For what gain? Alliance queues for AV are tiny. A win, even in an hour long fight, gives far more honor and rep than multiple 30 minute losses, and even if Alliance wanted to just roll over and have the match end quickly, they can’t control when Horde finally decides to kill Drek.
Absolute tin foil hat bat guano.
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i dont care what anyone says, if you played 16 years ago you know that the original devs were very hard for the horde. So there will be some bias towards the Ally whether intended or not. on top of the dumb starting positions, horde are able to get up behind SPGY and camp your respawns while you cant do much to stop them.
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Nothing like rezzing to mages and warlocks shooting at you from the top of the hill already.
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The difference is, all that time in game, you can actually enjoy it. As opposed to being completely frustrated the entire time. The only way to not be completely frustrated is to be one of those people who just gives up and becomes apathetic, and we certainly have our share of those.
AV is NOT fun as ally. It’s something that the vast majority of Alliance players will do until exalted and will never, EVER, do again.
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- Horde cave is too far forward.
- SHB is completely defenseless in the middle of nowhere.
- SHGY can be attacked from multiple sides, and the rez spot traps defenders
- IBT is in a very easy to defend position
- IBGY is protected by a one path chokepoint AND IBT
- IBGY rezzers aren’t trapped and can defend or attack immediately
The Horde advantage here is truly nuts.
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Its a strength so the horde uses it. Not too much of a choice in the matter if you ask me.
Even so, as a participant in these games, I can say that its not a map issue. Lets just say alliance pugs don’t know how to handle AV.
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Gimme 2 graveyards right next to each other and lets see how you “handle it”
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I agree. We should move the alliance starting position to the Blacksmith in Arathi Basin. See how well Horde can adapt.
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It wasn’t that long ago I was getting rolled by ally AV premades and it was their GYs - or we had them but it didn’t matter one bit. Its an excuse, not a justification.
Horde have long as hell queues, they’re not going to make it easy for anyone after waiting that long. They’re determined as heck to win and the alliance just aren’t for whatever reason.
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You are clearly wrong. Roll alliance and see. Many of us play both factions. There is no question the map is imbalanced. It always was. Can Alliance win? Sure with an organized group, that actually wants to play. In that case Alliance have to play 10 times better than horde to even have a chance. Without that type of group there i ZERO chance of a win.
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Please don’t compare a 30+ stacked team on discord with specific gear requirements to what’s going on now.
Alliance have to 30+ premade to stand a chance at winning in AV, that’s how trash the map is.
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And I am not arguing these points. I agree that alliance do give up and just try and farm rep. But that does not change the fact that there are some very difficult things to account for. IBGY is impossible to take with horde rezzing at cave unless the alliance is just WAY better than the horde. You have to kill every horde defending IBGY like 10 times in that 5 minute period.
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You do realize your queues would go down if you didn’t play that way don’t you?
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