Interesting how those choke-points don’t work. It’s almost like they’re not really as much of an advantage or something.
Do you even realize how arrogant and ignorant this argument comes off as? Do you even begin to realize how difficult the game is going the other way? For one second, have you even tried to put into legitimate, objective perspective how the game is played from the other end? I would love for your “superior” horde to try playing the other direction.
Just admit it. You’re a horde simp. What’s your win rate in AB and WSG? Are you so superior still? Or do you rely on making a premade for your one and only chance to maybe possibly barely eek out a win?
No. Your argument is invalid. Take off the blinders. Stop sounding off on superiority and recognize the advantage you have. Be grateful for it. Enjoy that you have it. But stop denigrating others in fear of losing it. Just admit it. YOU are not good at pvp. You NEED those advantages.
yeah steamrolling a bunch of random horde with no healers in a full 12-13 rank premade takes so much skill not long after you lay down against horde premades. I rarely lose to alliance pugs. nice try loser
There are only like 2 horde premades left east coast that are competent and even one of those is starting to kinda be “meh” since most of their good players are finishing the grind.
I am not trying to change the map.
I just want horde and alliance to look at this 1 factor objectively:
If alliance are forced to spawn at SPGY when SHGY is contested, shouldn’t horde spawn at FWGY when IBGY is contested? Does this not at least seem reasonable?
Yes Azzuree, that is reasonable. But only part of the fix. The first part would be to move the horde cave slightly back so they don’t get first dibs on SPGY. Second would be yours - also highly effective. Third would be to open up IBGY so it matches the terrain disadvantages of SHGY. Fourth would be to move the IBGY rez-point into a cave to match the spawn-point of SHGY. After that, it’s pretty much the same map with same advantages/disadvantages either way, regardless of what horde try to counter with - which are all pithy arguments intended to distract from the very obvious problems.
Instead they should have added the current iteration of AV which on retail Horde lose just as badly. . . I don’t get it. You all talked a big game when you won early on when the Horde deliberately was trying to lose saying “We’re just much better players, now that it’s fair you have no chance!” But suddenly that tone has shifted drastically.
I could care less about the starting point tbh. There have been plenty of matches where we have decimated the horde at SH but have just been completely unable to capture IBGY due to attrition on alliance side. That one change would make me happy
The original drek rush strategy was only working because we had full premades with assigned tanks and healers all set up before the match started. This tactic is no longer viable now that ally cannot premade.
No, it’s more that the PvE Heroes of both factions are done with their rep grinds and have never gone back. The Alliance are done rushing wins for quick rep, Horde are done intentionally losing for quick rep. AV’s honor got tinkered with meaning there’s more of an incentive for Horde to actually try to win, so they are.
Removal of premades is the least of your concerns and the smallest reason why you now are losing. Your faction just doesn’t have as good of players.
Lol, you’re so delusional it’s funny. We get that there are chokepoints. I just see that you dont understand the actual imbalances.
Now consider
What if you couldn’t run up the high ground at SPGY and shoot fish in a barrel down in a little culdesac?
Horde are able to escape from IBGY in any direction, with a jump down a hill to advance–meaning any chasers give up forward progress. (Oh and the GY actually rezzes you on the side further toward the enemy base, pretty convenient for a forward GY).
Even if alliance capture IBGY, you rez significantly closer to IBGY to recapture, and the cave rezzes more players at once. We are forced to start the game capturing snowfall to even have a chance, where you START with an objectively better forward GY.
What If you didn’t have 2 towers converging on IBGY–already the best choke in the game.
Horde can reach our bunker and capture it before we can Even show up to defend.
Horde reach Belinda at the same time as alliance. Only 30 more seconds to Galvangarr for alliance.
Backdoor into alliance base eliminates the bridge chokepoints issues. Bridge used to suck, but nerfs up to 1.12 had already reduced the number of NPCs and made them weaker meaning the bridge wasn’t even close to all the old bridge boomer complaints.
all of the alliance graveyards outside of the aid station form perfect little “death culdesacs” from behind the flag to funnel us into AoE
Those are some pretty objective advantages for the horde.
I didn’t say never. id say I win around 95% of the time against alliance pugs. only time we lose is when we have no healers and the alliance usually has 5+
cuz yall so bad you need to keep running back to your healers after all the damage I do to you
What if your base wasn’t the most easily defensible location in the entire game with limited cover from archers, with the only point of access barring wall climbing being a giant bridge that you can easily control with a handful of mages against an entire team? As well as your bunkers having 3 archers ever attacking you INSIDE meanwhile Horde you can LOS all but one archer as you flag cap.
I presume we’re just going to ignore the fact you have this exact thing, except with a downward slope making it easy to LOS as long as you hold that chokepoint called Stormpike Graveyard. Iceblood is pretty flat with limited LOS. Meanwhile I hit a couple people on the hill going to Stormpike, they back up a few inches and unless I’m at the top of the slope I’m getting LoS’d. In addition to it also having a series of hills easily accessible to people that control that area at that particular moment allowing for even more vantage points.
Stormpike is closer to your entrance than Iceblood is to ours but hey, we gotta conveniently leave out details like that for the sake of making a flawed argument I guess. Also if Horde are trying to retake it, we have ONE pathway. It’s easily defended for whoever controls it. Stormpike you can jump off the side of your base by the rams and go under the bridge then flank the Horde. But ah, those pesky geographical details poke holes in your arguments so by all means avoid addressing them and pretending they don’t exist.
Where the archers don’t hit you. If I’m not hugging Stonehearth flag, the bunker next to that will shoot at me if I so much as enter the road, with an entrace on the opposite end of the bunker so I basically have to eat a ton of arrow shots to even get to the thing presuming there isn’t a mage or something ranged shooting me through the windows, of which they can easily back up and be unattackable due to Line of Sight. More of those pesky details.
Inaccurate. If you’re both traveling the same speed (meaning barring any mount gear) you arrive at the bunker just slightly before us if you run directly at it. We only reach Snowfall, the most worthless graveyard in the BG six seconds before you and Horde outright ignore it anyway and just zerg Balinda.
This is wholly untrue unless you’re comparing 60% speeds to 100% at which point, no duh. Balinda is closer to your spawn than it is to ours. Riddle me how we apparently get there first despite I see Alliance getting to your bunker which is right next to it at the same time there, Ratman.
All the while you’re getting filled with arrows by the bunker overlooking that back entrance, and this is wholly inaccurate about the bridge. Sure the NPCs can no longer outright carry your defense, but that would be preposterous if they could, but you throw five competent frost mages on the bridge, they’ll defend it pretty easily without a frontline. You’d be surprised how hard it is to convince Horde to just bulldoze through.
As do the Horde ones with the express exception of Iceblood. However to avoid getting aoe’d to death on the platform you have to either body res off the ledge which bars you from defending because it’s a long trek around to get back into the fight, that leads right into the Alliance and it isn’t like you’ll make some crazy play unless they’re hopelessly blind, or just not res because once you leave that platform you’re not in range to res anymore.
Frostwolf Graveyard and Aid Station as you put it are both “death culdesacs” where you’ll get aoe’d on if the enemy faction contests the graveyard.
Trust me, from more personal experience with AV’s geography than you’ll ever have from private servers (where guess what, the terrain doesn’t change) as well as Vanilla itself and now Classic on both factions, Alliance has the much sweeter deal. The issue is your faction is just terrible. Light’s Hope the Alliance steamrolled Horde unless Horde as a whole raid backdoored because we didn’t have a faction of benchwarmer tier players.