I had no idea how unfair AV was until

I went with this race because it was the race I originally played 15 years ago and have the level 120 retail orc named Fayld to prove it :slight_smile:

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See what I mean? :slight_smile:

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I just wanted to call orcs dumb it wasnā€™t actually personal.

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When you roll Alliance, like the OP did, you can disregard your own argument. Horde literally meet Alliance at Belindaā€¦ We have no chokepoint PAST a GY on either side. Horde have a useful chokepoint at literally every GY. You really donā€™t understand how balance works.

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Itā€™s your post that says it. The post says I read the article. The post points out the bias of the article. The post points out the bias one has to have to actually believe the article. Well, itā€™s either that or ignorance and gullibility.

Donā€™t worry about him. Trolls are trolls.

Iā€™m undefeated as of like 2 weeks or so. Granted I only get like 2 BGs in a day at most, and skip a few days.

However, post-AV BG weekend the narrative has shifted. Alliance no longer keel over after SHGY farm is done. Multiple BGs this week have them push to IBGY, maybe get the towers down, etc. This last BG I was just in the Alliance pushed all the way to the base and took over the relief hut. They also wiped our offense briefly when they tried to go for Vann. We still won, but like I said the narrative has shifted from what was normal a week or so ago. The past was just a total blowout, not even touching IBGY, nowadays Iā€™m not surprised to see them push into IBGY and further south. They always seem to be behind though, but they put up a fight.

Nothing of note changed between 1.8 and 1.12 in AV except NPC numbers and strength (which imho should absolutely be rolled back, if not all the way back to 1.17 when everything was still in AV and everything was at full strength). And that period was a hell of a lot longer than you insinuate.

What they ACTUALLY said:
https://www.engadget.com/2007-10-01-does-the-horde-really-win-every-battleground.html

But sometimes it makes me wonderā€¦ why do both sides feel that the other is dominating in battlegrounds? Does either side dominate in battlegrounds? And this afternoon, Kalgan has hopped on the forums [to provide an answer] to my question:

ā€¦generally speaking the win/loss percentages for WSG, AB, EotS generally fall somewhere around 55% to 45% on any given day (with Alliance also represented on the higher side)ā€¦ AV has gone through greater swings, with alliance winning as much as 75 to 80% of battles (NA servers again as an example) before patch 2.2 and horde winning about 60% so far after 2.2.

When asked about trends over the past month or year, Kalgan replied that they were [about the same]. Much as I suspected ā€“ a lot of winning and losing is a perception issue.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080420165846/http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2041159435&sid=1&pageNo=20#388

Is Kalgon biased in this thread?:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080420165846/http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2041159435&sid=1&pageNo=20#388

OT but those old forums looked so much better than this garbage we have now.

He didnā€™t have to be? There is no average for win/loss ratio other than the 60% win ratio of horde compared to the 50% of WSG, AB, and Eots. All kalgan ever said about Alliance was that Alliance have gotten up to 75% to 80% wins on at least one day. Then in post #388 he says that the 60% average was basically the same:

See? Horde have had a 60% win ratio in AV. So it is as I said. Thank you for pointing it out again.

Without a doubt. This new fangled endless scrolling is garbage for a forum. There is a vast difference between scrolling chat and a forum. They seem to be oblivious to this.

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Nowhere in the two quotes on the page I cited did Kalgon state that horde had a 60% win rate. Kalgon posted exactly what he meant, despite your warped interpretation of it which is quite different than what he posted.

the horde chokepoint is in front of the horde graveyard, and so the graveyard can be defended from there.

the alliance graveyard is behind the alliance graveyard, and so the horde can defend the graveyard from there.

the SPGY ā€œchoke pointā€ does not provide Line of Sight to the people behind it, the uphill points shoot down into the alliance respawn. This is a farming tool for the horde.

the defenders at SPGY will spawn in the cave, thus eliminating the use of that forward chokepoint. There are 2 backdoor locations for the horde to go behind the remaining alliance and backcap.

The TP location for the alliance is on the flag at the entrance to Van.
The TP location for the horde is at the entrance to Drek, but well off of the flag.
In order to defend TP Turtles, alliance have to be off the flag, but the horde sit in the same location.

The RH Commander sits on the flag. The Aid Station commander leaves the flag. Horde can cap the Aid station without worrying about the commander. Alliance cannot do the same.

Horde can pull Wing Commanders out of the village without entering it, alliance cannot. Horde can kill the blacksmith, ground assault, and cavalry commanders all within 40 yards of the flag, alliance cannot. Hordeā€™s cavalry commander is in fact so far forward, and off to the side, the alliance equivalent would be putting it at the Harpy cave.

Druids have to run thru 3 choke points and 2 graveyards to get to the summoning location wide open in the field, next to a bunker, between the Horde graveyard and alliance graveyard. Primalists do not have to run thru the village choke, summon well away from from the graveyard and tower in a visually obscured location without needing to run thru them to get south.

Stonehearth bunker is capturable without having to pull the Commander. Neither IBT nor TP can be capped as such.

The IBGY respawn point allows you to run forward away from the flag in many directions to escape forwards. The SHGY respawn location is stuck in a spot to be farmed with no forward escape available, nor rear. You have to run right past the flag, and thus attackers, to get out.

Galv has an AOE resettable mechanic, Balinda does not. In fact, Balindaā€™s CC heals the horde.

Van can be fought with Marshals alive in his room without having to pull them or leave the room. Drek has to be pulled around a wall, meaning horde can hide in the room without risking themselves, whereas alliance are fully exposed.

The reason the Horde have a 95% win rate in Alterac Valley is not from skills, or people trying. It was 75% before the queue change. The map at every section favors the horde. From the starting cave to finishing the general.

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So it has nothing at all to do with a quarter of your team AFKing the entire game, since you have instant queues and zero accountability due to CRBGs?

Yes, he did. But he specifically said the 60% Horde win rate was AFTER patch 2.2.

:cactus:

Which was after reinforcementsā€¦ in TBC. Zeliek seems to not understand what Kalgon posted about the ā€œpastā€.

To wit:

AV has gone through greater swings, with alliance winning as much as 75 to 80% of battles (NA servers again as an example) before patch 2.2 and horde winning about 60% so far after 2.2.

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Sounds like first world problems to me.

Do I really have to point it out again?

Kalgan says Horde have a 60% win rate after the 2.2 patch. Kalgan a few posts down replies to another poster that asks if the numbers were different over the life of bgs. Kalgan says:

Seems really cut and dry unless you canā€™t read?