the whole ‘‘stop using titanforged items or stop wearing them’’ is just so stupid and does absolutely nothing other than handicappin yourself
Reducing the % chance does nothing besides making them even more bs when they pop up. They already cut back on titanforging from legion->bfa and it is still frequent. Until they reduce the % to zero will it actually do anything.
is there any more argument that wants to be destroyed ? voice up
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But it does have a cap? It’s 425. WF/TF, sockets and tertiary stats aren’t meant to be the main focus of progression, just icing on the proverbial progression cake. In the case of WF/TF it’s so that slightly older content can still be somewhat relevant to ones power progression.
WF/TF wasn’t designed to be focused on, it was meant to be something that makes you go, “oh that’s pretty neat” when you run content you’ve already done. Your gear progression can end at having 420 Azerite pieces and 415’s in every slot (that being the highest base ilvl gear you can get atm) and from their it’s just comparing other pieces of same ilvl gear to one another and min maxing secondaries.
Plus on the argument of it affecting others, How does one having better gear than you truly affect your gameplay experience? Little Larry getting a 425 from a WQ doesn’t make him better, it just pumps up his numbers. In the grand scheme of things it just means the barrier to entry for doing M+ or Mythic raiding content for Larry (if he chose to do it) is lower.
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Most of the things you said are true, it really comes down to do you prefer temporary excitement or fullfilness. Titanforging does not bring you fullfilness, since whatever forged, whether its sockets or stats is based off luck, not your efforts for defeating the boss.
That’s an overall cap. I already stated that I was fine with the MoP cap which was at +4 ilvls (IIRC). I’d be fine with a little more leeway such as +5/10 ilvls. In other words (using BoD as an example), normal can drop base 385 and can WF up to 390 and TF up to 395. Instead of how it is now, which is that normal drops base 385, can WF up to 390/5, and can TF all the way up past heroic and past mythic to 425.
Do you see the difference?
Which is exactly my point. It’s not something that we, as a player, actively engage in seeking. It provides zero gameplay input and is just a dopamine hit.
BUT… it IS a progression system… A system that over-rewards us for doing… Nothing. You make it a determined system where I input effort to output similar upgraded gear with a logical cap? And I’m A-Ok with it. Me simply rolling the dice over and over (even if I’m not doing it on purpose) so it can randomly spit out a 420 paku trinket devaluing all the effort I put into getting my 415 version? No… I’m not ok with that.
Ted’s and Bill’s team are relatively similar in skill. They frequently compete in an attempt to see who can achieve server first. Ted’s team acquires 30 TF items in their first week of progression. Bill’s team acquires 5 TF items in their first week of progression.
Ted’s team is at a significant advantage despite putting in literally ZERO difference in effort to Bill’s team.
This is a competitive game. Again… Make this a completely solo experience, and I’ll instead just ask for a method to de-WF/TF my gear so I can replicate what I find to be an enjoyable system. But guess what… it’s NOT a solo player game. Now when little Larry gets a 425 WQ item, I literally don’t care… Little Larry isn’t going to impact me… We’ll probably never meet… I don’t care what he’s wearing… The problem is that, the exact same bonuses are offered to people who DO impact me. People who I’m in direct competition with. Whether it be progression rank, raid spots, pug acceptance, parses, etc. etc. etc.
Edit: I also want to add, that this competitive scene part is… secondary for me. For me, my primary reason I dislike TF is because of my own sense of progression for my own characters. TF adds nothing to my experience… Having defined goals to shoot for rather than nebulous ones made my experience significantly more enjoyable.
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I have to say, MOP to me was good. You can forge up to 5, which really doesnt feel like total bull%$*/, and you could upgrade gear by 8 ilvls with valor points, points that were being rewarded for doing various activites, thus promoting older content or lower content.
To me that was a perfectly acceptable thing. It was minor enough to not devalue other content while still a happy surprise.
Id also be ok if they went the MoP route where the content you did gave you tokens that allowed you to power up your items. That way effort led to tangible results and it had very little to do with luck
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I like that lens. However, I feel you are playing at a level where that lens matches up the most. At other levels I feel the gear will have more of an effect - especially in a competitive environment, even if the environment doesn’t truly call for the level of competition/scrutiny it’s getting.
I personally try to remember that it is just a thrown in system to attract the cyclical gamer who is looking for that gambling fix that they’ve been conditioned to expect. Natively, I don’t think that’s a part of the MMO-RPG experience, and I’m not sure I like the graft.
I will say that I need more time to work within this new system before I can conclude one way or another that I’m fine with it. For my guild, this entire expac has turned gearing on it’s head - in someways freeing, and in other ways demotivating.
It is certainly not boring to see Blizzard try to retain relativity in a market that does not favor the long game. (ie: mmo-rpgs))
I just don’t understand why EVERYTHING can’t be capped at +10 like weapons. A mythic piece should 100% of the time be better than a heroic piece. And heroic to normal. And so on and so forth.
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Actually you can get Azerite Titan-forged gear. Then I also stated you can disenchant them or sell them to get gold. Did you miss that are you just ignoring. I think you are ignoring it.
As I have stated in the past, if you hate something, but still use it that is called being a hypocrite.
By the way, this will be the last response, since I am tired of repeating logic here.
That was always my original desire. Things can only scale up to the base ilvl of the next tier of content
LFR->normal
normal->heroic
heroic-> Mythic
No being a hypocrite would be if he told others not to equip TF items and then did so himself.
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It’s not that simple… There are other factors to consider… This is a multiplayer game, not a single player one. Actively harming my characters progression narrows my options for content progression in the pug scene severely. Actively harming my characters progression hurts my teams progression. And for what? So that I can feel better about my gear progression? That’d be straight up selfish to do so. I value my teams progression over my personal gripes with TF… So I use the TF items… That doesn’t mean that I’m now no longer allowed to explain why I don’t enjoy how I achieved those TF’d items.
If this was a single player game, then I’d be 100% with you… but it’s not and looking at this in a vacuum isn’t really a fair assessment.
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Agreed with OP. Even if im benefiting, the gear doesn’t…FEEL good.
The bosses I kill dont feel like I accomplished a hard challenge on my own skill, it feels like I had easy mode enabled for me forcibly by Blizzard so I easily outgear my current content.
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I am really hoping that you will respond again but without repeating yourself. That way you might put forward a logical argument
Edit. This is in response to ironnic
One thought my teammates had was, instead of TFing dropping for a specific item… Instead it dropped a +5 ilvl token. So that you could actively choose where you applied the upgrade. On one hand that could be really neat as then we’d have agency in the matter, on the other I could see it being a pain in the tushy if they decided to nerf a trinket that you’d been upgrading.
Put in season caps and new ilvl upgrade totems each tier and I think that could be at least something interesting. Gives us the choice of what to upgrade.
If the population is 2 they are neither and both the minority and majority. Lets just assume the population is 2. I think only 2 people play wow. /s
“wahhh wahhh I got good gear wahh wahhh I don’t like getting good gear waaah wahhhh!!”
So I assume you deleted this titanforged gear you hate so much?
Been addressed about 20x above
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You are using a system that you hate, right? Yet, you gripe about it, while using it. You can state that you hate it, but if you are trying to get rid of it. That is hypocritical when you are still using it.
Now I know it hinders your performance when going into a mythic + or just a mythic dungeon/raid/BG, but it is still considered hypocritical.
Example:
People complaining about flying. They hate it, but still use it. Then they say lets us get rid of flying. When they can just do one thing, not fly anymore. Then when a person states they do not have to fly. The hypocrite states that he uses because everyone else is using to their advantage. He argued against his own argument/
I really do like titan-forging, but I do not hate it. I get the reason on why they put it in. It partly to get rid of the vendor system, which to me was a big mistake.
You and everyone else here is stating an opinion about the assessment, but the arguments against the titan-forge is hypocritical and does not help them argue against it.
For example: I hate mythics. I have done one or two for BFA. I even did a couple for Legion. I just did not find them fun, like other people. That is why I do not play mythics anymore. The mythics only add some mechanics, but after you go for a mythic plus, it is just the same mythic mechanics, except the adds/bosses just hit harder, and have more health. I can argue that Mythic plus are a waste of time and should not be in the game. That is also an opinion, but I am supporting it by not doing mythic plus, enforcing my opinion. Then I can enforce that mythic plus by stating it makes the raiding gear useless…
This is just an example of an argument that supports my opinion of mythic plus"
Argument: Mythic plus makes the end game content, raid gear useless. The raid gear ultimate gear, but is surpassed by a dungeon mythic plus gear. Does that make sense, no. That is why I do not play mythic plus, because it does not make sense in the game.