Yeah brew is actually unironically squishier is lower keys.
I legit struggle on solo m0 when I can handle big pulls with the healer dead in 13s
Your orb to dmg intake ratio is massive when you’re purifying since it’s spawn rate is counting pre-staggered dmg against your max HP.
If people think brew is squishy or has no sustain it’s usually because they don’t respect haste as a stat nor respect what freezing stagger can do in monster tank dmg pulls. Can’t blame them cause literately everyone tells you not to respect either lol
Yeah but prot will rot out eventually with zheals but brew that knows how to play can actually sustain for a long time. They become a blood dk without the same one shot risks.
Brew imo is best described as a cross section of prot warrior and blood dk.
Purify and orbs are both effectively death strikes.
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Omg that’s genius honestly.
Have exploding keg also silence and be 4s duration would be neat too
so will brew unless you completely over gear the content in which case i can sustain on my prot war for a very long time and have done exactly that. its kinda hard to tell exactly but most people would agree that brew probably relies on a healer more than any other class and that includes warriors. well for now we will see what happens to warriors in the upcoming ptb.
go look up the logs yourself. im looking at equinox one of the best monk tanks in the game and comparing him to a warrior in the same key. he is getting healed more than other tanks. going through and comparing to other tank classes as well. its honestly kinda interesting the data im getting
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Considering everything else paladin brings I agree. Brewmaster and Avengers Keg on the other hand 
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You have a bad habit of drawing the wrong conclusions from data that you don’t seem to fully understand.
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You’re going to need to show your data set first.
ive already told you where to look. check out equinox’s logs and compare them to the same key level of other similar placed tanks of other specs. compare the damage intake to the the amount self healed and see how much more the healer had to make up for.
oh and btw im not the only one who says monks require the most healer input either. several of the top tank players agree with me. they were the ones that put the idea in my head and then i went out and looked for myself. in this particular case i used equinoxs 15 dawnbreaker since that guy in here brought up dawnbreaker.
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See, I already did that except I compared a different brewmaster who plays more defensively to a warrior in the same key level and the brewmaster took less healing from the healer. The main problem is, damage intake on tanks has a huge spread even across the same class. Some of it is covered by specific healers, like disc priest, while some of it comes down to aggressive play(trinket choice will also play into this). Also, the very nature of stagger provides a steady stream of damage that can be easily healed even if the brewmaster doesn’t actually require the healing. The only conclusion to be drawn is that aggressive brewmasters can be healed more.
Lets take these 2 brewmaster logs. Not the fairest comparison since its comparing a recent 23 minute clear to a 31 minute clear from 3 weeks ago. Regardless, one brewmaster had no aug evoker and took 110m more damage overall but was healed for 220m less. They’re being weird and using fiery resolve, but a huge chunk of the difference is the raw defensive power of swarmlord’s authority.
wait no way you compared and 8 min differnce dungeon and then come to the comclusion that one tank took less damage…like yea no one would have ever guessed that what happen. mind blown you totally win this discussion.
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The tank in the longer dungeon took more damage and covered more of their own healing.
you might want to go back and look lmao he took more damage because the duneon was slower. his damage intake was almost 100k tps less that equinox so if equinox would have taken as long in the dungeon he would have taken more damage at that rate. thats why you dont compare apples to oranges.
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Aside form the part where the tps is lower simply because there’s more time over which the damage was taken over, the tps isn’t the point. Though even if you apply a time filter to the first boss, you’ll see that even though their clear took almost the same amount of time, equinox took 25% damage and did 50% less healing despite having an augmentation evoker. In fact, Affinitym was only healed for 8m by the healer compared to equinox taking 52m from the healer and 9m from the other party members.
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I’d save yourself the trouble, either Lemon doesn’t know how to read logs or purposefully misinterprets the data to hit moving goalposts. It’s fruitless, but c’est la vie.
Yeah, there’s literally no accurate conclusion to be drawn simply by looking at logs. Even with the same class tank, damage intake and healing done has such a wild spread due to playstyle that you can’t say that one is objectively worse than the other.
Because he let’s stagger rot so he can pump dmg.
Brew can choose to go into a defensive playstyle and become a cockroach that won’t need healing if they need to. But if you have plenty of external healing then you rot and push dps instead. If I don’t have a great healer or group I can be defensive and require way less healing instead to leave more for the group.
Y’all keep making shallow comparisons in a vacuum without understanding how monk works.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gcfBJNHQA7hbyzPr?fight=9&type=healing
Mild example, only a 12 but ran my experimental route where we don’t pull any shadow manifestations and just instead pull large pulls of tank buster only mobs without kiting so all the dmg is on me for cooldown pulls between minibosses. Only received 275k HPS from healer where the rest of the group each received ~140k hps.
I don’t actually need much healing, if at all on these pulls. If healer ever dies I can sustain myself forever, I can even just spam vivify the group on miniboss pulls and still keep myself alive because I have infinite stagger to heal off of.
Comparing war and brew dmg intake is meaningless the same way comparing war and bdk dmg intake is meaningless. Bdk will take ridiculous dmg and do ridiculous healing and brew is a hybrid of the 2. Stagger/purify is literally just a hybrid mix of ignore pain and death strike
Healing on monk doesn’t feel very good either. I made a post about this, this morning but it had a lot of typos and website wouldn’t let me edit it. I’ll revisit it again later. I’ve done hundreds of keys. I’ve done like a 100 +10/+11 keys alone as mist weaver this season. I’ve seen these dungeons hundreds of times across all my toons. I’ve played through them quite a few times as different roles – but I only play heals as monk.
The mist weaver tier set from tww s1 is maybe the worst healing tier set ever added to the game. It’s not only so bad that it’s almost non existent but if you wanted to take advantage of it, it would be a waste of mana to factor into your decision making, and it also hurts you to spend more time than you have to spamming vivify on someone. The amount of healing added to our impotent hots by the tier set is so also almost non existent. I’ve begun to wonder if the only reason that our tier pieces are consider “bis” is because 20k more healing on a HoT is better than gear pieces and not having 20k more healing on a weak hot. To the extent that I often consider simming different pieces of gear than the tier set itself but haven’t spent the time to do it.
The bosses this season are awful. Most of them anyway in m+. Just terrible. They’re not fun to heal at all. Super punishing. Monk doesn’t have a bres, lust, damage reduction they can give to allies, I don’t think a cheat death (does healing tea count? I don’t htink it does literally,) our single target is really weak, cocoon scaling is really bad it doesn’t match the difficulty of content relative to the ilvl expected of you to run said content. The only immunity we can give ot other people is tiger’s lust and I might be wrong but I think it’s the worst one that all the healers have to offer because it only frees them from what’s currently effecting them. It doesn’t negate what comes after (I would need to read the spell again to be totally sure but I am p sure rn.) And classes that don’t have this like pres evoker and priest have an alternative solution like life grip and rescue. I feel like shaman probably has something but I’m not sure but it might not matter because shaman has like everything else.
So much of our healing and damage depends on melee up time and the hardest bosses to heal are not only the ones with unreliable melee up time but lso the most brutal heal checks. The 2nd boss of dawn and 3rd boss of CoT are miserable to heal as mw in high keys because you want to punch/slap the boss but the boss will kill the heck out of you if you get into melee or stay there for more than a few globals for most of the fight. I play a lot of healers and play most of them at KSH level and monk feels more than any other like it’s just missing something. It doesn’t matter if it’s bop, bres, lust, damage reduciton, better single target healing / single target damage, etc., it just feels like it is missing so many things that every other healer in the game has. The worst thing tho is definitely our lack of damage reduction. They should not have removed our avoidance aura. If anything they should have buffed it. I can do the same boss pull in a key as hpal and as mw monk. On monk I’ll heal >1m hps. Maybe >1.5m. On hpal I could heal the exact same pull with <800k hps with nobody dying. Just cause damage reduction and having range saves so much time and healing.
All of you are talking about balancing. But there is a fundamental issue with brew, which is the clunky animations and awkward interactions with some talents.
Balancing is done all the time, some times brew is meta, sometimes it is not. Maybe. But the issue lies with the classs design because monk animations were ignored when they did animation overhaul in WOD. For instance, bear tanks are not really meta in S1, but they are still fun because it is complete.
Evidence: Take a look at warcraft logs for M+. bear is at the bottom while brew is 2nd? Then compare it with Tank population in Raider io. Brew tanks are in single digit %, while every other tank spec is over 10% of the population.
See the issue?
