I get the "no changes" crowd, but there WERE changes, so why wasn't class balance one of the changes?


#1

I’m loving classic right now, I don’t have too much free time but I’m spending all of it on classic. So don’t clock me wrong here, I am very appreciative of the game.

But something really bugs me, people wanted no changes but the developers didn’t think that was feasible, so there were changes, namely layering. The developers felt like layering was something that would infinitely improve the experience of players, and I can understand where they’re coming from even if I disagree with it. So that means the devs were interested in the experience of players.

But if they cared about the experience of players, why wasn’t the class balance considered? The meta is essentially just warrior/3 mages/priest, or alternatively 32 mages, a hunter, a paladin, and healers and tanks. Why couldn’t Blizzard take the time to make Druid more viable in the DPS and healer departments and not just a flag carrying bot for when WSG finally rolls around? Why couldn’t Blizzard have taken the chance to make mage so damn OP? Why couldn’t Blizzard really dive into the meta that they know would be forced if not for some changes.

I know you don’t have to follow the meta, and I’m definitely not, but that doesn’t say much for other people. For some reason people have decided to be meta slaves and now I can’t get a raid as a horde druid. I get regularly ghosted from dungeons because I’m not a viable enough healer or dps. I have little viability in aoe farm groups. I’m sure there’s even more problems that other classes face but I’m really feeling the dissatisfaction as a druid.

All I’m saying is, why did we get layering forced on us, but we couldn’t get one of the most important aspects of the game?


#2

Most of the changes made so far have kinda been against people’s wishes. Saying classes should be re-balanced is 100% never going to happen.


#3

oh hey, another post complaining about layering.

man, imagine the egg on your face if you had a time machine, and spent two weeks unable to log in because 20,000 people want to play at once.

that egg would be pretty cooked, yo.

i’ve got some stats for you, if you drop down off your horse and pay attention:

OG classic servers were “full” and had queues at 2k players (later updated to ~2500)

current classic servers appear to be “full” around 20,000, with queues starting between 15k and 20k.

With layering, some zones are still unplayable. Imagine what the game would look like, with 20,000 players and no layering?

imagine that line to kill a troll, but with 8000 people in it, instead of 50.


#4

Did you even read my post? I laid it out pretty clearly, if Blizzard thinks that we needed layering so direly, why wasn’t something as dire as class balance also brought up? This isn’t crapping on layering, this is crapping on Blizzard’s ability to decide what was necessary for this game to thrive.

edit: also just clarifying, I’m OP, after I logged out and in, it seemed to put my profile on the correct character I played on retail.


#5

you have no valid complaint, without layering the game would be unplayable.

i’m sorry you don’t like it, or something? but trying to conflate ALL changes with this one you hate is invalid, and broken.


#6

I’m sorry you don’t know how to read, I’d almost feel bad for you, if you didn’t at least go around pretending like you do know how to read.


#7

I am saying no to any changes because i don’t want Classic to become a sterilized, boring, hand-holding simulator like retail where everyone is forced to use the META by default and there is literally zero room for creativity or emergent gameplay.

Of course you will run into morons in Classic who drink the META Kool-Aid like it’s going out of style, but ffs, stop with the hyperbole. Not evey group is going to kick you and yes, you will get to play the game as your chosen spec.

You just need to socialize with people who are not stupid. That’s what Classic boils down to: socialize with the right people.


#8

Let’s think about some of the wonderful decisions/changes that Blizzard, in their infinite wisdom, have already seen fit to implement:

Layering
Nerfing of Warlock summons
Nerfing of Mind Control
Allowing the exploitation of layering in the open world
Choosing to implement nerfed AV
Forced bundling of retail and Classic

All of them are bad. All of the decisions/changes that modern Blizzard has had a hand in are bad. That’s why we need to continue advocate for no changes/minimal changes – not because Classic is a perfect game that requires no improvements, but because modern Blizzard has lost touch.


#9

But it should, retune the fights fix the classes.


#10

Short answer, the devs formally said: “if you want balance changes we have BfA for that”


#11

The sad thing is that Burning Crusade got the class balance as close to perfect as it ever was in wow if nothing else. Real shame they absolutely have refused to implement any changes to classic wow that were totally warranted.

Oh, and we are on patch 1.2, not 1.0, so the decision to have balance in this spot is completely arbitrary.

Also not having harmless things like achievements in the game is a bummer. Loot treadmill easymode is what has ruined retail, not little things like pet battles.


#12

Slippery slope. There is always going to be someone demanding some change or addition to their class. That’s how we end up with retail.

No matter what is “fixed” according to whatever arbitrary definition people will always ask for more. It’s kind of a human problem.


#13

The private server players infilitrated this forum a long time ago, started the no changes movement, and convinced Blizzard they were the games fanbase. They already knew what the OP classes were going to be and wanted to ensure that they could roll those and be OP forever. They framed it in a way that even the smallest of changes would turn the game straight into retail. Patently ridiculous but a lot of regular forum posters also fell for the meme. That’s what happened.


#14

Go play retail if you want “fixed” classes, bro.


#15

Can we just stop with this tired topic? if you want class balance go play retail where every class is a builder spender, no burst, jack of all trades. Perfectly balanced and “fun”.


#16

They need to put some effort into fixing the bugs that are ongoing, many of which are new since classic went live, others were reported in the testing period but not fixed at that point.


#17

You seem to be talking about instance leveling. Not really something that’s a requirement in the game, by any means.

Personally, I don’t much care for spell cleave, but really like melee cleave dungeon groups. I also don’t mind tanking for mixed groups (not a particularly optimal group). But, that’s me, and who cares… I’m currently doing some solo questing, which is a little boring, and somewhat slow as a warrior, but that’s what I’m choosing at the moment.

Here you are talking about a completely different thing from leveling. And fair enough… what is it? Suitability for particular things? Druids happen to have some abilities that make them exceptional at carrying a flag, like faster run speed, self heals, tankiness… while mages don’t.

Here’s the thing, so what? What sort of suggestions do you have?

What are you asking for?

What is it you’d like to optimize balancing around?

Would you prefer if there were a version of WoW with only druids available as playable classes? Would that be more balanced for you?

I’m not asking that to be snide; I’m quite curious actually as to precisely what it is you are calling balance, and what it is you are seeking.


#18

This shows me that you’re horrible at Druid, so explaining to you how classes ARE balanced would be pointless…


#19

Because class design, as it is, is part of the vanilla gameplay experience.

“Meta” stuff like server stability and crowding they aren’t going to replicate - nor do they intent to replicate any of the other bugs in vanilla.


#20

Because one is a necessary evil otherwise the game becomes unplayable.

The other is authentic to how the classes were in 1.12. They’re apples and oranges.

Also, the goal is to take layering out of the game. Would they implement these arbitrary changes of yours and then take them out of the game during phase 2?

It’s like restoring a classic car and giving it different tires so it’s street legal, then you come in and say “well, it’s already got different tires, so why not give it a different engine and sound system, heck make it a monster truck instead”

Because that wasn’t the goal of the project.