I fixed hunters in Arenas you guys!

PVP Arenas
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please never ever ever post again

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What would you suggest for bm then? Because currently it is horrible to play a BM hunter in any competitive pvp. It is crazy that we literally cannot kite anyone anymore at any point.

What??? Dilly some of the stuff you say man like lol. Every spec “wants to play to win”… Like what? What spec doesn’t “Want to play to win”… We don’t make the meta blizzard does. I get that a majority of the kills are landed in dampening but guy you gotta articulate a little better.

Bm needs more damage. They took major over nerfs to damage, like randomly generated ridiculous over nerfing to their damage and was given very little back as people progressed gear wise.

Run behind a pole = BM’s problem is that the easiest way to mitigate their damage is hide behind a pole UNTIL dampening.

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It’s usually pretty standard that people refer “playing to win” as your priority on securing kills offensively. The entire meta relies on killing the enemy teams mana bar and very defensive oriented specs, which is the oppossite of SV hunter

As for BM it actually is still decent in the current meta, not for kiting but just for playing very passively with wild protector. BM ret hunter is definitely solid, even moreso if your ret manages PvE gear causing wild protector to be even more effective.

BMs goal is passive play and slowly dpsing, you can’t really kite or go for CC which is pretty silly but it’s not an ineffective spec by any means, just boring because you’re only a dps bot giving a team mate a 10% damage buff

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Play to win vs play not to lose. Dampening comps don’t play on setups or ever going aggressive. They play on “don’t ever take risks to get a kill because that will put you behind if you don’t, and we’ll win in dampening anyway”. As sv (and hunter in general), you’re very setup based. That’s what he means by that.

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Got to 2320 at MW/Spriest/MM this season before they both quit, and just about everything you say was similar for us as well. Certain melee cleaves could literally prevent any and all win conditions just by lining burst or constantly pseudo-interrupting any follow up aimed shots, or Rapid Fire just due to the fact of how tanky and high self healing is compared to hunter. On top of that while doing this, they actually CREATE a win condition by playing “not to lose” because although damage is similar, my healer has spent an extra 40% of their mana bar due to uptime vs damage vs damage reduction vs their dps self heals.

I feel like at this point since Aimed Shot is already gated by Charges and a CD, they need to make Aimed Shot instant cast, and 2x charges of disengage @ 12 second CD.

This increases constant damage against melee cleaves chasing, lowers their output by disallowing 100% uptime by many melee (DH and WW will still be in the 90%+ area but that’s because those classes are ridiculous), while not giving us the slippery slope of blanket damage reduction that directly effects the way hunters play out against casters.

I really don’t want Legion tankyish hunters again like some other people have been suggesting. I want to be able to prevent/punish training with very reliable damage but still highly susceptible to swaps if I screw up positioning like we were in WoTLK through MoP.

The amount of weaknesses vs strengths MM has vs almost every other spec in the game feels like we’re playing by a completely different set of rules that no one else has to.

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Yup very true. I think if Aimed shot went instant cast they would need to possibly lower the damage of it a bit, and possibly compensative for the damage loss by upping Rapid Fire’s damage (since it can be interrupted with stuns/cc still allowing some counterplay).

The other thing I was thinking about was possibly a talent that reduces incoming damage while we are ‘channeling’ the Aimed shot cast? That is if they refuse to address how awkward it is to have to stop and cast our main damage source, while no other hunter spec has to do this.

PvP Talent:
In The Moment: Ignore distractions while aiming your shots. You take 20% less magical and physical damage while Aimed Shot is channeling it’s cast.

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That’ll happen when you’re the only ranged class that has no susceptibility to interrupts and silences(pet rez being the only exception I’m aware of unless silence still prevents traps; disarm doesn’t lol)

Hunters are inherently outside of the design paradigm of every other class in the game. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re op or bad for the game… Or at least it wouldn’t if we didn’t get such a pathetically small amount of dev attention as to make special cases unjustifiable time sinks, but that’s not hunter players’ fault

It is hilarious when bm is good and dumb players try to pretend that there’s anything ok about being a melee with 40yd long arms. KC los was a long overdue change, but it’s not enough to make bm fair by a long shot

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Survival doesn’t need a buff, it needs a meta change…

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Definite possible route, but makes for a lot of unfortunate issues with PvP talents.

Even right now 2/3 of our PvP talents are basically mandatory against any melee cleave. Scatter and RoS. Adding that as a basically means that we now have 3 mandatory talents. This also makes me fear just adding more “tankiness” to a game where tankiness is a massive meta issue. But maybe it has to go this route as a bandaid?

I really think Hunter needs to stay squishy, but just needs to be mobile enough to kite all melee (as had been there niche for almost a decade). Lower melee output through kiting to relieve pressure. I’d rather a slight aimed shot nerf with insta cast in a game where WWs/DHs cross the map, do 1.5x your HP bar, then re-cross the map 80 yards out anytime you get the chance to get 2-3 off consecutively than become a tank.

Force melee to have to think about chasing again. Certain melee cleaves as a MM hunter (ww/dh for example) feels like you’re playing against specs with cheat codes enabled with what they can do to you with little regard to positioning.

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This is how it currently is. Our pet has to be LOS to do real damage.

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Yeah. BM. It should have been the melee spec. ‘“Getting in there” with your pet?’ Sounds like BM to me.

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Well for starters I know you’ve mentioned it before but RoS/Scatter should 100% be baseline, at least for MM. We need to be able to run Trueshot talent if we want but it’s difficult to find a slot when we need every defensive talent we can get.

At least one of the three stings as an option opens up. FD trait is invaluable for maledicts removal, Spriest dots, and to counter Touch of Death damage if used right when it’s about to pop during that 99% damage reduction window. There’s some other good ones like Dragonscale versus Boomy/Spriest, but we could use some new options as well. The 5 second reduction to turtle on every Aimed shot is a leftover relic from Legion that needs a rework, etc. :wink:

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i agree, this should be reverted back to how it used to function.

nope. stand still and cast like the rest of us casters… unless we get casting on the run once more like MoP. :grin:

i haven’t played survival since the “black arrow” days, heh. but why joo wanna mimic my buffs, mon? :wink:

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Piercing shot and explosive shot should work like meteor. It does a set amount of damage, and that gets split among x number of targets in the effect radius. This would allow them to be tuned a lot higher in terms of damage to one target, and would add some depth and instants to the damage kit. It would also play well with trick shots if they ever decide to fix it to 2 target minimum.

The idea would be that piercing and explosive both hit really hard, so you’d want to try and stack when they’re being used. However stacking would also open up at least one trick shots application. Explosive and piercing both lining up with trap would give you a good 30s instant burst with the outplay conditions that you stop a lot of the st pressure and theoretically break a trap by stacking on the trap and explosive target.

Those things combined with the mobility, utility, defensive suggestions I have above could give it some win conditions and not have to do very many drastic core changes to the fundamentals of the spec.

For anyone that’s interested, here’s the continuation of the bfa mm thread in items and classes:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/8-1-5-x-8-2-marksman-discussion/84343/221

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Problem with that is the increased travel time. Trap had an arm time when there was virtually no animation/travel time when it was trap launcher. You also lose the ability to instant trap from close range basically forcing you to use the abilities together when you wouldn’t have otherwise had to.

To make the arm time work, they’d have to change the animation and that would be a much more technical change. It sounds easy when you don’t take any of this into consideration. Ideally trap would have never changed to the way it is now in wod, but it did and some things will just have to be dealt with.

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Take mana rift animation, make it blue, make it so other people can eat it, another lazy fix

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That’s a pretty good idea

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Can you explain a little more? I don’t know mana rift off the top of my head.

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Mana rift is DHs mana burn honor talent. You press it on a target, creates a swirly around them and after 2 seconds the swirly goes off and burns 8% of their mana and max hp

Can basically use the same animation here

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Ahh this is for freezing trap? Sounds pretty interesting.