People like you unironically got blizzard to kill the Horde. You are the reason there’s no Horde pride left.
Could you elaborate on this? Am just honestly curious.
Think he’s just sick of the constant villain bat, like many of us. 
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$2 says “Horde should enjoy being metal, not here to navel gaze about morality” or something like that
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No, the Horde is existentially unpleasant to play as right now. Adding a fanservicey cool battle moment isn’t even a band-aid at the moment.
The Horde needs to have a moral victory, I guess. It needs to justify its continued existence. I’ve played Horde for 16 years and at this point I don’t know what justification the Alliance has for letting the Horde exist and, much worse, I don’t know why the races within the Horde don’t just surrender to the Alliance and leave given that they’ve faced worse abuse from their own Warchiefs than the Alliance lately.
If the Horde had a better moral foundation and if the Alliance were a more intimidating and frightening foil, the Horde would be more fun to play. Right now, the Horde are war criminals and the Alliance are fluffy puppies that want to gently reform us. It doesn’t work. For either side, I think.
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big oof… i think its too late for that…
I dont know what to tell ya this is exactly why people were practically praying anduin wrecked lordaeron first and that sylvanas didnt burn the tree.
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The constant whimpering. The constant hand wringing. The constant “I dun wana fite :(((((((”. It’s like you people never quite understood the concept of blood and thunder. The Horde has always been a lesser force than the Alliance, which is why we always have to fight brutally. The Tauren were scattered nomad clans, the Orcs and Belves are fresh off their almost destruction by only ~10 years, the Bildgewater even more recent, the Darkspear and Huojin were always minor clans, and the forsaken can’t even reproduce. They banded together to stand against a world that scorned every last one of them. Little Andy whinging about friendship doesn’t change the blood already shed, and debts need to be paid on both sides. I would have prefered to fight at Theramore and I would have prefered Saurfang just killing Malfurion instead of burning Teldrassil, but neither of those happened, so I’m not going to cry over the results when both were based on the idea of claiming Kalimdor for the Horde. The only thing I’ll cry over is the fact that a faction I’ve loved for over a decade has been vassalized by a walking trope of a pansy.
What may be hardest to write considering the hole Blizzard dug for themselves, is a feel good moment for the Horde related to Teldrasil. The way that story unfolded in BFA makes a feel good story for it in SL difficult to pull off. Especially for Horde players who, rightly, feel they were forced to do something they didn’t want to do.
If this is what you’re looking for then I’m honestly not sure how to help without a fundamental change in the story. The only way to really give the Horde a moral victory and to, as you say, justify its existence would be to have the Horde as an organization give up something or commit to something truly massive. And even then I’m not certain how effective it could be.
Unable to help otherwise I will leave you with this and wish you luck.
SG1-Teal’c Schoolin a Brotha - YouTube
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So, yes, exactly what the poster above predicted with “the Horde should be metal and stop navel-gazing”
At some point it’s a good thing to be interesting and deep instead of coasting by the rule of cool
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A “Horde Feel Good Moment” … its tough in leu of BfA.
Honestly, just about the only thing I can think of is getting back to super basics (as stated above); getting Thrall, Baine, and Vol’jin all in places where they are who their people need them to be by the time we leave SLs; and getting them some appropriate power ups to reflect that growth and allow them to help keep Thrall’s promise to Tyrande in some manner. That way if we really aren’t going to get much in the way for the Forsaken in SLs, we are at least in a better position to shower them with attention after SLs. Which desperately is needed.
Down the road though for the Forsaken, if we are going to get a Calia Forsaken Leader there are a couple of things that need to happen.
- Calia needs a reason to get some distance from the Alliance. She doesn’t need to be antagonistic to them, but she needs that clear line of her people over them. On top of getting to know them, and building inroads with the Horde.
- Voss needs to be built into her equal counterbalance, so that theoretically she and Calia can serve a wider of the “Forsaken Identity Spectrum” explored in BtS. Just about the only thing genuinely good that came out of that book.
- A supporting cast for both Voss and Calia needs to be somewhat developed to support their awkward positions. Voss gets Belmont, Tattersail, Faranell & Tattersail. Calia gets Faol, Derek, Leonid, and Delaryn. That is a very well rounded cast in ideals and variety.
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What if instead of that both of them fell into a volcano and died. I think that would be a very cool Horde feel-good moment.
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This is what I mean. You don’t even care about the core of what the Horde was built on. You just slap a red flag on and claim a seat at the table so you can add some dissent. I hate the Alliance, but that’s just a game thing. People like you genuinely make me feel disgusted with the way you’ve whinged the whole faction into a bunch of simpering lames.
“Stop whining and lick the Warchief’s boot” is not a compelling long-term or arguably short-term story for the Horde
Different strokes for different folks, but following along with unambiguous villains doing heinous things out of pride, ego or nationalism is not something most human beings over the age of 14 are interested in watching or interacting with. There’s a reason most games with morality systems have their playerbase be overwhelmingly good rather than evil
Humans need a reason to empathize with one side over another and they will naturally gravitate toward the put-upon underdog, who when WoW started was ambiguous and now is quite clearly the Alliance
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What was the Core that the Horde was built on? Because last I checked, it was Thrall’s vision of the WC3 Horde? Not the WC1 Fel Horde. Not the WC2 Orcish Horde. Not Garrosh’s True Horde. Not Sylvanas’ “Bulwark Against the Infinite”. And Sylvanas only coasted by this long by relying on her extreme levels of “Plot Convenience”, as did Wix. Both characters were generally disliked by pretty much every other racial leader by MoP … including the BEs.
It was Thralls ideal that brought the Tauren and Darkspear into the Horde. It was Tauren’s belief that the Forsaken could be a positive influence on the World that brought them into Thrall’s Horde. It was Thrall’s vision of the Horde that allowed Lor’themar to overlook what the Quel’dorei/Sin’Dorei were allying with. Hell, it was even those characters who represent the WC3 ideals that Sylvanas deliberately used to recruit our friggen ARs. Rokhan for the Zandalari. Baine for the Highmountain. Eitrigg for the AU Mag’har. Liadrin for the Nightborne. The Vulpera joined themselves, due to their interactions with characters like Baine. NONE of these ARs joined because of Sylvanas herself.
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Nazgrim had a good arc. Sylavans wasn’t a “unambiguous villain” despite what blue posters squeal until people like you cried about Teldrassil. Ion even admitted in one of the dev stream before the BoD raid that the “Shoulders for Saurfang” schtick made them change course, which lines up with the story “A Good War” being retconned before the expansion even ended. This is why your actions disgust me. Reminds me of that Yuri Bezmenov guys quote about American leftists. Forget the political aspect of it, you guys are the most useful idiots around.
Thrall straight up admits it’s not his Horde anymore in War Crimes. That was his excuse for why he didn’t go back to being Warchief. Beyond that, even Thrall was all about Blood and Thunder. Go read Lord of the Clans. He was never afraid of killing his enemy. Thrall was always a “if you do not want peace, then we will give you war” type of guy, and guess what, the only time the Horde started the fight was Garrosh, and even that is a retcon. The Horde was always about finishing it quickly and brutally because that’s what works for a smaller force, and it’s what every race that joined had experience with and came natural to. But whenever the ball gets rolling the Allince starts whinging and people like you guys start the “I dun wana fite :(((((((” crying and it only worked to funnel us down to the s*ithouse we’re in now.
I’m fine with both names, but when I think of him, I think of him as Thrall.
The Horde are getting a feel-good moment, they aren’t taking center stage to be villainbat. That feels good, doesn’t it?
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This is just…wrong.
The animation and writing pipeline mean that the core steps of Saurfang’s journey were already in development around the time BFA launched or even before. Saurfang was always going to be the hero of the loyalist vs rebel storyline because Sylvanas is, unambiguously, a murderous, callous villain.
Burning the tree was the most controversial moment in Warcraft history. Possibly one of the most controversial story decisions in any major gaming franchise. People who were lapsed from WoW or didn’t even know who Sylvanas was heard about it. Because it was such a dumb, poorly motivated, heinous twist and half the playerbase was forced to go along with it against what they had been told the Horde was for over a decade.
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This is where the “bring back WC3 Horde” people miss the boat. The Horde died in BfA and there is no bringing it back. The second Saurfang teamed up with Anduin the WC3 Horde narrative was dead. The WC3 Horde can only exist in a world where they are the downtrodden victims, it’s impossible to go back to that now. Look how many get up in arms or complain about the mere suggestion that the Alliance do something mean to the Horde first for once.
Same for the Forsaken narrative, Before the Storm destroyed it with Anduin and Genn “understanding” the Forsaken…now it’s over and there’s no getting it back.
But that’s the only thing that will bring back the WC3 Horde. In the meantime I’m sick of Anduin fanboy characters like Baine and Thrall and I’m sad we don’t leave them to rot in the Maw.
So we’ve lost Gallywix, Sylvanas, and now Nathanos to this s-show and I’m just over here ready to join the Mawsworn Covenant in 9.1 and burn this universe to the ground. 
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sir, this is a wendy’s.
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Oh sorry, I made the mistake of liking unapproved characters that aren’t goody-two-shoes, I forgot this is the story forums.
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