I feel the Horde needs a feel-good moment before SL ends

Lore Story Forum
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Theyre making calia your powerhouse, i can feel it, voss is only a rogue so she needs some “magic” muscle to throw her weight around.

The horde is seriously lacking on the magic department, none of the alliance power ups (im looking at you night warrior) were needed for us to have the upper hand against the horde.

they now have to scramble to put something in place now that sylvanas is gone, however theyre fumbling it up.

thrall is a nice step, if only he would get his mojo back.

baine suffers from the same problem thrall did before his shamanistic power up sadly he will most likely stay as he is.

thally

calia… well… calia.

The nightbore+silvermoon is a nice touch, they got magic muscles to flex, shame they are also stained by that “stood by sylvanas while she burned the tree and did squat” stuff, its a shame, i wouldve liked lorthemar for warchief.

vol jin

Summary

is coming back as loa so thats a plus for the darkspear.

id say if these developments happen you have at least a response team that can pull their weight even if 4 are on super tier.

the rest of the horde cast are basically mortals.

on the alliance side we got malfurion who is op as heck but for some reason got bodied by an axe to his back.

tyrande which is currently pumped up for whatever reason (i still hold they shouldnt have done this)

jaina

anduin

velen

turalyon

alleria

we got like 7 powerhouses here you guys need everything i posted plus a couple more to even the odds, it was high time blizzard did something with aethas or rommath, instead they dumped everything on the nightborne for some reason and we only see thalyssra.

Im still salty that khadgar pussied out of the fourth war because he was sad and consider him a traitor big time.

edit: old man genn, the dwarves and the gnomes are basically support, i put them all in the same lot as the vulpera/goblins.

btw i forgot talanji she has her own powers alright so it looks something like 5 vs 7.

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You do know that canonically Voss is one of the most multi-specialized melee fighters in the entire setting right? Like, if Blizz didn’t keep shoehorning her into the Rogue subcategory, she’s actually a Rogue, Warrior, Mage hybrid. She can teleport, use a unique type of purple fire magic, and is just about the only character in the entire story that could be quantified as an Anti Light-User specialist. She is very powerful conceptually if Blizz just allowed her to be.

I don’t mind if Calia also is a powerhouse, but Voss is a good counterbalance for her.

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TBH, I don’t even know what a “feel good moment” for the Horde would be at this point. Alliance too, not forgetting you guys, but that’s not the topic.

Like, okay, we finally kill Sylvanas. Yay? I mean, we’ve literally been there, done that with defeating our former warchief. And by the time we stabbify her, she’s already stopped being the warchief for a couple years. And this time, not even because the rebels kicked her out. Because she just left.

Like, that actually stings, not gonna lie. We were all just too much of a hassal, what with not wanting to war crime anymore, so she walked away from us. The rebellion wasn’t even worth the time to crush. “Eh, this is getting lame, I’m’a go take my party to the Maw, where it’s cooler”.

How do we come back from that? How do we get a “frick yeah, HORDE” feeling when the supervillain who was happy to throw down with the Alliance, just can’t with us and leaves? How do we go back from joining a genocide, to “mah honor tho”?

I don’t know what a feel good moment that doesn’t feel unearned would even be at this point. I want one, sure, but I’d rather it be because the Horde earned it again, not because “hey look, Vol’jin’s a loa now!! And Thrall got his groove back!! And Baine… … … Did I mention Thrall got his groove back tho?”

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This is the main problem isnt it? overglorification of mages, why you think pallies and DK have more screen time? cuz they do magic on melee.

Most notable rogues dont leave much of an impression, even warriors got them beat on that.

that is beggining to change i think with shaw and flynn doing covert ops, that cinematic where we see them going invisible at plain sight etc…however i havent seen squat about voss after scarlet so correct me if im wrong.

edit: i see your point now, sadly she is on the rogue slot and doesnt seems its going to go away soon.

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65

Honestly I feel like it’s a better argument for going deeper into Shadow magic with subtlety, but Rogue didn’t dramatically expand in size with Legion and they’ve backed off of the magic angle a little since a lot of long-time subtlety rogues weren’t thrilled with it.

I don’t think ‘martials with some supernatural abilities’ are really on the same level outside of a fight as a mage, which is the warrior problem. Not that it stops warriors in WoW from being impressive in cutscenes: Grommash, Garrosh, Varian, Thrall.

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I don’t mind being a monster.

More loot and spoils.

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Sylvanas is currently working with Kelthuzad !! the same guy who planned the destruction of quelthalas !! the reason for her death and her suffering!

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Real good writing isn’t it? :face_vomiting:

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I can’t really sympathize with Horde folks supporting Sylvanas as somehow being more of a paragon for the root Horde fantasy than the spirit of the Warcraft III Horde, but people are certainly entitled to their own tastes, and there is, perhaps, no arguing taste. At any rate, the position that Sylvanas even cares about the Horde (or ever did beyond it being an alliance of convenience and necessity), let alone that she represents key aspects of its foundational fantasy paradigms, seems absolutely untenable. I’ll leave that line of discussion at that.

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70

If you wanted to do this, how bout actually bringing the magic back to Shadow Hunters. Rokhan is one of the strongest Shadow Hunters around, but he’s treated like a slightly above average rogue. They are supposed to be functionally like a Rogue mixed with a Priest and Warrior … but like Voss they don’t see much more than stealth. They are in many ways the Horde’s counterpart to what NE Sentinels are meant to be. A hybrid class. But … it is what it is.

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There is no better writing than the character we have known since wc3 and whose objective was revenge, now work with the guy who is responsible for everything she suffered and for which she wanted revenge

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You won’t hear me complaining. I think a lot of it could be done with glyphs, too: e.g. we have dark rangers, priestesses of the moon, and scarlet archers. Glyph up some extra magic visuals and bam.

Shadow Hunter would be a progression of Rogue in this scheme.

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I wouldn’t consider him a traitor I would consider him being put up on the shelf in time out for a while.

Blizzard learned its lesson from past expansions where if they constantly shove a major lore character with faction connections down our throats a good chunk of players get sick of it and start to hate said character. I simply think blizzard just put him in time out for the time being since he had plenty of time in the spotlight. Even their justification for him sitting out seemed rushed and meaningless to me.

I’m glad they left him out because I personally love Khadgar and would have hated to have to fight against him, would have really made me sad about all the times in WoD and Legion.

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Back to the OPs point here, I think its just important to get back to basics with the Horde here in SLs. We have Thrall. We have Vol’jin. We have the son of Cairne. All of which are long overdue for specific types of growth in character and power. So, perhaps its time to give them that and hearken back to the WC3 Trio a bit. Have these three become the leaders/beings they need to be for the Horde and its races by the time they return … and make a story of it.

Have Thrall have some actually productive time with this very Duty centered General Draka of Maldraxxus, then get some resolution with Garrosh in Mal. Have Vol’jin complete his transformation into the person both Sen’jin believed he become, and Rezan expects him to be. Have Baine take to heart lessons about his weakness, get some Huln time for now … and if the opportunity presents itself have him a forge a true Bloodhoof Rune Weapon (with some serious Shadowlands Magic attached). And make a Tauren Spirit Walker/Warrior out of him.

Then, all we really need is a later chance for Voss to come in and get some Dad time in the land of the dead. Have it relate to her stumbling down the trail of the mystery of her death, to help bridge that gap of her currently forced position. While Calia pursues her own path.

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Thats good for you and all that but we were fighting for survival here and he scurred back to his tower instead of helping us save the world against your power crazed warchief.

In this context he decided to sit this one out on his high horse judging the alliance and horde as the same, instead of helping, and we know things werent that simple.

i dont like it but most of this war was framed as the alliance on the defensive so its really not fair he judges us both by the same stick, same crap happened with tharan zhu on pandaria which is why his character came off as ignorant and condescending.

things like this destroy characters.

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76

What purpose would he have served? The alliance already had countless lore characters of DBZ power levels, a mage that Khadgar has had past disagreements with being one of them.

If anything they should have used the time to flesh out characters who ya know haven’t been fleshed out…instead of ones who were the main character for the previous 2 xpacs.

Overusing a character damages them far more. There’s a reason it’s taken this long for people to start liking Thrall again and why a ton of people hate Anduin and hated Sylvanas before she turned obviously evil.

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I get why you’re vexed, but really I don’t think there was a better solution. I chalk it up to “Khadgar gets to be wrong sometimes.”

Also, more importantly, this is getting to be a big off-topic tangle – this is a thread for Horde feel-good moments in SL.

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My fault I commented on it, didn’t expect it to turn into a whole conversation.

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i dont think so he is ruined already.

But back on topic, im concerned we have to basically ignore bfa and take shadowlands on face value just to have a feel good moment for the horde, that is if it ever happens.

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I think it’s kinda hard to do that, given that the whole premise of SL is built off of BFA’s horde faction nonsense as its foundation. I think you’d have to take out the plot altogether because as soon as you approach any of the reasons why the zones are screwed up, it all leads back to “Sylvanas made a deal with the devil and oopsie the horde did a war crime.”

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